View Poll Results: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

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Thread: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    If the trusting relationship exists, it would be optimal.
    Many experts disagree. So who it correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    You are not correct. The relationship is more important that the sex of the parent. Again, in studies done, children who had same sex parents reported having no issues discussing things with them.
    What studies over what period of time? Or where they just questions sent to random couples etc? How was it done?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Except your naturalistic fallacies are not facts.
    I disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    You have proven nothing accurate. All of your claims go to the traditional or naturalistic logical fallacy, neither of which proves anything.
    No fallacy, it is a fact.
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    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Has absolutly nothing to do with it.

    It does not make the male female family unit less than optimal.
    Just to reiterate. It is extended families that are optimal, not nuclear families. It could be argued, all things being equal, and if extended family is denied on both counts, that an opposite sex couple might have a slight advantage over a same sex couple when it comes to gender role development, but that is supposition. There is no telling whether other extraneous variables, such as mentors, teachers, and peers, would provide equivalent gender role development. Furthermore, it is so low on the list of things that lead to an optimal environment for raising children, that it is almost irrelevant. In other words, only if an opposite sex family and same sex family had equal parenting ability, money, time, etc. would the sex of the parents even come into play. Otherwise, those much more important aspects would decide between the couples who could provide the optimal environment for a child. To assume that an opposite sex family is optimal just because it has two of each parent would be both naive and dangerous.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 05-06-10 at 06:54 PM.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Has absolutly nothing to do with it.

    It does not make the male female family unit less than optimal.
    If you want to ignore facts, that's fine. As far as optimal goes, what is optimal has already been demonstrated: a two-parent caring family, regardless of the sex of the parents. You have no evidence to prove this wrong other than an appeal to tradition logical fallacy.


    In this case the success rate is indisputable by centuries.
    Irrelevant. Appeal to tradition logical fallacy. This could also be the appeal to numbers logical fallacy. You are NOT talking about rate, you are talking about numbers. Here's an example of what you are doing. If 80,000 out of 100,000 traditional families are successful, and 8,000 out of 10,000 single sex families are successful, which has the better success rate? NEITHER. They would be identical. You would disagree and that would be your error.



    Well according to history I think it is.
    Irrelevant. Appeal to tradition logical fallacy.

    Again it boils down to a lot of "ifs" on your part. I will stick with what is tried and true.
    No "ifs". Evidence. Your position is based on logical fallacies. I'll go with evidence over that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Just to reiterate. It is extended families that are optimal, not nuclear families. It could be argued, all things being equal, and if extended family is denied on both counts, that a opposite sex couple might have a slight advantage over a same sex couple when it comes to gender role development, but that is supposition. There is no telling whether other extraneous variables, such as mentors, teachers, and peers, would provide equivalent gender role development. Furthermore, it is so low on the list of things that lead to an optimal environment for raising children, that it is almost irrelevant. In other words, only if an opposite sex family and same sex family had equal parenting ability, money, time, etc. would the sex of the parents even come into play. Otherwise, those much more important aspects would decide between the couples who could provide the optimal environment for a child.
    I don't think it is so low on the list as to be irrelevant, but the rest I agree with, yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I reject the studies as to short and to many educated guesses. Maybe in the next 50 years it will be different, but I doubt it.
    Reject all you like. Doesn't change that quite a few are longitudinal and that they have been peer reviewed and repeated, demonstrating validity. You have shown nothing to dispute them other than logical fallacies. And your last statement demonstrates your bias, Blackdog.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Many experts disagree. So who it correct?
    And empirical evidence disagrees with your position.



    What studies over what period of time? Or where they just questions sent to random couples etc? How was it done?
    If you really want, I'll repost them all, again. I will have to be later when I have more time.



    I disagree.
    Doesn't change that it's true.



    No fallacy, it is a fact.
    No, it's a fallacy that you cannot prove other than stating the fallacy.
    Last edited by CaptainCourtesy; 05-06-10 at 06:58 PM.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    And as an aside, when I speak of extended families, I define that as anything outside the nuclear family (parents, children). This is how most define it.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I don't think it is so low on the list as to be irrelevant, but the rest I agree with, yes.
    Out of curiosity, how would it still be relevant after considering the factors of parenting ability, parent knowledge level, income of the parents, available time of the parents, and the availability of extended family? All of that would have to be equal between an opposite sex couple and same sex couple for the sex of the parents to be a relevant factor. Or do you think any of those factors I mentioned are less important than the sex of parents?

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    If you want to ignore facts, that's fine. As far as optimal goes, what is optimal has already been demonstrated: a two-parent caring family, regardless of the sex of the parents. You have no evidence to prove this wrong other than an appeal to tradition logical fallacy.
    Please point out the fallacy? It has been a huge success for a very long time. You can ignore this as irrelevant, but it does not by any means make it a fallacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Irrelevant. Appeal to tradition logical fallacy. This could also be the appeal to numbers logical fallacy. You are NOT talking about rate, you are talking about numbers. Here's an example of what you are doing. If 80,000 out of 100,000 traditional families are successful, and 8,000 out of 10,000 single sex families are successful, which has the better success rate? NEITHER. They would be identical. You would disagree and that would be your error.
    OK you are misunderstanding what I am saying.

    I am saying it has been a huge success for a long time. It has shown to be the best, period. It may not be by any huge margin, but it is still the optimal family. This includes the ability to breed and raise a successful child into adulthood.

    Other variables exist, but this does not change the rate of success vs any other way in the history of mankind.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Irrelevant. Appeal to tradition logical fallacy.
    Only in your book.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    No "ifs". Evidence. Your position is based on logical fallacies. I'll go with evidence over that.
    My position is based on history and fact. Yours is based on a few studies that prove a same sex couple can successfully raise a child. This does not make it the best solution. That would be like saying a single parent home is as good as a 2 parent home because single parents have raised successful children. The single parent home is not optimal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    OK becoming to much to respond to, so I will summarize my position and we can go from there.

    I have no problem and support gay couples adopting even more so than single parent adoptions. I have stated this multiple times throughout the thread.

    I agree with the experts and a proven history that a male, female home is the optimal parental arrangement for child rearing. This has nothing at all to do with gays adopting or raising a family.

    Different levels of good exist.

    You people seem to think everything is all or nothing. Get over it.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 05-06-10 at 07:11 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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