View Poll Results: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

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  • No

    186 43.26%
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Thread: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

  1. #21
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    Korimyr the Rat's Avatar
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    of course it matters in america what the morals are based on! If e dont look at what they are based on rights like freedom of speech and religion can be greatly hindered
    Rights are a moral construct. They're no more important than any other moral construct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    so OTHER peole have stupid morals but yours is fine? got it lol
    You laugh at me for it, but you're expressing the exact same attitude.

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    these examples the way YOU are using them are MEANINGLESS for the debate at hand, for gay marriage there is NO victim so there no need for law to define it. so that was a waste for "this debate"
    You seem to have missed my point entirely. The entire concept of "victim" is based on moral definitions, and is unnecessary in determining the law. There's no victim in the majority of traffic offenses, either. There's no victim in incest or drug abuse. There's no victim in suicide.

    That doesn't make any difference as to whether or not these laws are invalid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    you actually couldnt be more wrong I am actually for a WIN WIN situation if you want to marry gay, you do, if you dont you dont. That isnt forcing ANYBODY to do anything sorry LMAO
    Marriage isn't just a piece of paper. There are thousands of laws that relate to marriage, privileges and benefits that our government extends to married couples. Changing what our government does, changing the rules that our society is governed by, affects everyone because everyone has to live under those rules. When you change those rules, you are imposing changes on everyone-- including those who disagree with the new rules.

  2. #22
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    If I think and feel that something is morally wrong, then I think it's absolutely acceptable to use the government to try to put a stop to it. That is what government is for.
    I disagree. Because "morals" are so subjective I don't think the government really needs to weigh in except in the very narrow band where what you are doing is infringing on the life, liberty or property of another. The downside to majority rule is that the tyranny of the majority is still tyranny.

    The government's position on marriage should be that the government has no position on marriage. It's none of their concern. Church's, of course, are free to marry anyone they want and you, of course, can have any position you like vis a vis marriage. Against gay marriage? Don't marry a gay person. Seems simple enough to me. (Note: That is not referring to you personally being against gay marriage).
    Wow. Am I awesome or what?

  3. #23
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    1 Rights are a moral construct. They're no more important than any other moral construct.



    2 You laugh at me for it, but you're expressing the exact same attitude.



    3 You seem to have missed my point entirely. The entire concept of "victim" is based on moral definitions, and is unnecessary in determining the law. There's no victim in the majority of traffic offenses, either. There's no victim in incest or drug abuse. There's no victim in suicide.

    4 That doesn't make any difference as to whether or not these laws are invalid.



    5 Marriage isn't just a piece of paper. There are thousands of laws that relate to marriage, privileges and benefits that our government extends to married couples. Changing what our government does, changing the rules that our society is governed by, affects everyone because everyone has to live under those rules. When you change those rules, you are imposing changes on everyone-- including those who disagree with the new rules.[/QUOTE]

    1 like I said of course what the morals are based on matter, because they matter to america, the bill of rights and the constitution. They matter no whether you acknowledge them or not

    2 I am laughing at you because I in FACT am not expressing the same attitude by any stretch of the imagination, thats just a flat our lie or total lack of understanding on your part. Pick one My stand is MY morals dont matter because they are MINE. My stance on this issue is that if it was legal EVERYBODY gets to practice their OWN morals not have other morals forced on them. I have no clue how you could spin that and totally misinterpret that.
    MY morals arent the issue I want it so BOTH sides can do what they want cant me any more clear than that. LOL

    3-4 read this slow, in this case there is NO victim what so ever in gay marriage. put all the quarters in the washing machine you like theres no spin to be made.

    again your examples have no barring on the matter at hand. no gay marriage singles out and punishes a group and denies them equal rights, your examples do NOT do that. next

    5 actually it is just a piece of paper with those rules you mentioned attached to it and those would not impose ANYTHING on people that arent gay LMAO It doesnt FORCE you to agree with the rules. IF this was reality, its not, then there actually would be no freedom of religion by your standards. I guess since america doesnt punish people that have kids out of wedlock that "forces and imposes" people who disagree to do the same right? LOL no it doesnt, they can still choose not to have kids out of wed lock.

    anyway and this isnt to you im still waiting for a good reason to stop it? waiting
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  4. #24
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Wow 13 to 1 so far for no
    im a little shocked actully thought id get more insite to the other side
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  5. #25
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Let people call themselves what they want, just don't force me to call it that.
    Thats fine as long as nobody has to call any relationship a "marriage" agreed?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  6. #26
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    In the current set up where the marriage license is a contract issued by the State, no it's not right to try to stop it.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  7. #27
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    I don't want it legally defined as marriage. Just have the state issue partnership licenses and end it at that.
    Since when did you gain legal control over that particular word in the English language anyhow? Inquiring minds want to know.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  8. #28
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Probably. It's just the only argument towards forbidding gay marriage that I've ever seen that has any logic and reasonableness to it.
    But it's not really an argument against gay marriage, it's an argument against all marriage. I don't see these people actively campaigning to end all marriage though, so it's not a logical position to take.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  9. #29
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    There are some who directly link the word "marriage" with a religious joining of two persons - the majority, I think, would limit it to a man and a woman.

    A portion of those persons would take it a step further and be of the opinion that a male - male marriage or a female - female marriage would be against the will of their deity/church/whatever.

    I would not support "stopping" Gay Marriage, but to support allowing gay marriage, I would require that people who do not believe in it continue to be allowed the option of not recognizing it (they currently can, but in the states where gay marriage is allowed, legally defining it as a “marriage” upsets some people).

    Thus I would support a new legal definition/word usage redefining legal marriages with some other term. "Civil Union" seems to be the most commonly suggested one.

    This would seem to prevent any difficulties with those who hold the term "marriage" as part of their religion (not to mention the potential First Amendment issues), by simply side-stepping the whole thing.

    Of course, there are probably those who want to not allow it at all, using the secular authorities to legislate a religious matter.

    Unacceptable, and a potentially blatant violation of the First Amendment.

    Personally, I don't really care.

    It's just a word.

    But...I think some opposition would be eliminated if another word were used.
    Last edited by The Mark; 04-30-10 at 10:06 PM.
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  10. #30
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    Im sure this issue has been debated over and over again but since im doing research and studying Id love more opinions cause its fun.

    Also let me add not only am I looking for your opinion im looking for your reasoning if your answer is yes.

    I have discussed gay marriage many many times and have yet to hear ONE sound, reasonable, logical, non-bais, non-selfish, non-arrogant, hypercritical, non anti-american reason to "Stop" gay marriage Almost every reason I have ever heard was also used about womens rights, equal rights interracial marriage etc. they were dumb and didnt apply then and they certainly havent changed now

    now mind you, pay attention to my verbiage, I said reason to STOP it.

    That means in America I think its fine for anybody to:
    THINK its wrong, gross or offensive etc
    TEACH its wrong gross or offensive etc
    PREACH its wrong gross or offensive etc
    BELIEVE its wrong gross or offensive etc
    FEEL its wrong gross or offensive etc
    etc

    but once you try to stop it I think you wrong on so many levels.
    I cant imagine how AMERICANS think they have the right to tell two CONSENTING ADULTS who and who they cant marry lmao
    Does it get anymore pompous and arrogant and selfish and hypercritical and anti american than that. How anybody thinks they have the right to tell a person they cant marry another one is beyond me.

    I myself im not gay so i REALLY feel its non of my business but has an american I have to call BS on the other so called americans that do think its there buisness some how.

    Anyway maybe this time will be different, it actually be VERY interesting if it is different. So does anybody have ONE sound, reasonable, logical, non-bais, non-selfish, non-arrogant, non-hypercritical, non anti-american reason to "Stop" gay marriage. Who thinks they have a sound reason on why they should get to determine who two consenting adults can and can not marry.
    Generally speaking, sure, if you don't support what it is.

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