View Poll Results: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

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  • No

    186 43.26%
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    244 56.74%
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Thread: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

  1. #221
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    It is not the same. Marriage is one man and a woman. In this country it has always been that way. Race is nothing more than a social construct and so it should not be relevant. Going against human biology is different.
    According to you based on religious belief, marriage is one man and one woman. You cannot use religious belief to enforce bigotry through government contract. That is nothing short of tyranny.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Propaganda? LOL!

    No, I am standing by what I believe to be right as an American citizen.
    You're not standing for jack **** beside trying to push your religious beliefs on other people and enforce it through State contract.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    And the Marriage License is free from any religious mandate since it is property of the State. So any religious argument built upon marriage being solely between a man and a woman has no regard within the Marriage License itself. Religiously married and legally married are two different things, and the Marriage License is not product of religion, but product of State. Thus it is subjected to all the limitations and requirements that government is made to observe.
    There is no requirement for a vote to be free from religious mandate, and it's a person's vote which is the target of the discussion, not the marriage license.

    If The People decide that they don't want gay marriage, then it's a "communal" law, not a religious mandate.

    Also, you're just assuming that there is no objective merit in a religious argument, merit which could be supported with secular reasoning.

  3. #223
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    According to you based on religious belief, marriage is one man and one woman. You cannot use religious belief to enforce bigotry through government contract.
    Yes, you can, if it supports a secular purpose.

    Blackdog could come here and say that he has no problem if some other 1st cousins want legal rights because Familial Relation is a Protected Class, but doesn't support those rights being called "marriage" due to religious convictions against incest. Blackdog casting a vote reflecting his religious beliefs is valid because opposing incest serves the secular purpose of public health by controlling genetic disorders from inbreeding.

    Like murder. Using a religious rational to justify an objection to murder is valid if reducing murder serves a secular purpose.

    The same is true of theft. The same is true of adultery. etc, etc, ad nausium.

    Me personally, where I oppose gay marriage is the same place I oppose hetero marriage, that being where the divorce rate is either not reduced or even increased.
    Last edited by Jerry; 05-03-10 at 01:28 PM.

  4. #224
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    There is no requirement for a vote to be free from religious mandate, and it's a person's vote which is the target of the discussion, not the marriage license.

    If The People decide that they don't want gay marriage, then it's a "communal" law, not a religious mandate.

    Also, you're just assuming that there is no objective merit in a religious argument, merit which could be supported with secular reasoning.
    Votes which come from the individual may be religious in nature. Votes which come from government must abide by the restrictions placed upon government. The majority of people may not like gay marriage; but so long as the Marriage License exists there is not anything they can justly do about it. Any action which prohibits same sex couples from obtaining a marriage license is one of bigotry and oppression. And that's what we're not supposed to be able. Communal law may not rightfully override the rights and liberties of the individual. It's that simple. Thus as long as there is a Marriage License, there is nothing one can legitimately and rightfully do to forbid same sex couples from obtaining a Marriage License. That's all there is to it.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  5. #225
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    According to you based on religious belief, marriage is one man and one woman. You cannot use religious belief to enforce bigotry through government contract. That is nothing short of tyranny.
    Based on the fact in our society religion or not it is one man our woman. You can scream that it is purely based on religion, but it's not. That makes you wrong.

    And yes I can do anything I like via the ballot box. In this country I have that right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    You're not standing for jack **** beside trying to push your religious beliefs on other people and enforce it through State contract.
    Thats a hell of an argument.

    I am not enforcing anything. I am submitting my thoughts and wants for the society in which I live. You don't like it? Move?
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  6. #226
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Yes, you can, if it supports a secular purpose.

    Like murder. Using a religious rational to justify an objection to murder is valid if reducing murder serves a secular purpose.

    The same is true of theft. The same is true of adultery. etc, etc, ad nausium.
    Religion isn't justifiable excuse. Everything is based on the rights of the individual. Not religious arguments which can change between gods and people.

    Adultery, BTW, is not illegal.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Votes which come from the individual may be religious in nature. Votes which come from government must abide by the restrictions placed upon government. The majority of people may not like gay marriage; but so long as the Marriage License exists there is not anything they can justly do about it. Any action which prohibits same sex couples from obtaining a marriage license is one of bigotry and oppression. And that's what we're not supposed to be able. Communal law may not rightfully override the rights and liberties of the individual. It's that simple. Thus as long as there is a Marriage License, there is nothing one can legitimately and rightfully do to forbid same sex couples from obtaining a Marriage License. That's all there is to it.
    And yet gay marriage is not only illegal in most states. It is not recognized by the Federal government at all. Go figure.

    So illegal in some states that they have amended the states constitution.

    Where does that leave you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  8. #228
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Based on the fact in our society religion or not it is one man our woman. You can scream that it is purely based on religion, but it's not. That makes you wrong.

    And yes I can do anything I like via the ballot box. In this country I have that right.
    No, this is a Republic, not a direct democracy. Thus you cannot infringe upon the rights of others, no matter how much you vote.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Thats a hell of an argument.

    I am not enforcing anything. I am submitting my thoughts and wants for the society in which I live. You don't like it? Move?
    Wrong. You don't like the never ending pursuit of liberty, you can get out or take a bullet. The choice is yours. But if you're going to stand in the way of freedom and liberty you should prepare for the possibility of some patriot taking you out. Treason and tyranny doesn't sit well for most in this country.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #229
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Religion isn't justifiable excuse. Everything is based on the rights of the individual. Not religious arguments which can change between gods and people.
    If everything was based on the rights of the individual, drugs would be legal without a prescription. So that's bunk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Adultery, BTW, is not illegal.
    And yet it is looked down upon by most.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  10. #230
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    And yet gay marriage is not only illegal in most states. It is not recognized by the Federal government at all. Go figure.

    So illegal in some states that they have amended the states constitution.

    Where does that leave you?
    Slavery was once legal too. Doesn't mean that it was right. It was oppression and nothing more. To lesser extent, it's the same thing here.

    It must be such a good feeling to have your bigotries enforced by State. But in the end, the course of America is to become freer, to recognize the freedom and liberties of more and more people. As such, it is natural progression to recognize homosexual's right to contract the same as any other. Standing in the way of that is nothing less than oppression.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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