View Poll Results: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

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Thread: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

  1. #11
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    No problem. Most of the anti-GM crowd posts during the day. I'm SURE you'll get a few commenting, but I doubt that there will be any logic to their reasoning.
    Thats cool. Just looking for some thought.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    If I think and feel that something is morally wrong, then I think it's absolutely acceptable to use the government to try to put a stop to it. That is what government is for.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Everyone who complains about the "traditional meaning" of marriage is missing one extremely important fact. The traditional meaning of marriage does NOT involve the state, it involves a church. The traditional meaning is a promise between a man and woman between God, not a court. The government has no claim to be issuing "traditional marriages" between people as they are a secular body and claim no religious authority. In other words, all that marriage is to the gov't is something you put on your tax forms, which i have no problem letting two men or women do.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    If I think and feel that something is morally wrong, then I think it's absolutely acceptable to use the government to try to put a stop to it. That is what government is for.
    Well define morals?
    morals based on what? religion? feelings? etc.

    heres are small example of what some people find "morally wrong"

    guns
    masturbation
    sex without conception intent
    nudity
    cursing
    tatoos
    music
    etc etc

    sorry but in america theres no logic on forcing your morals on me especially when there is no victim.

    Murder, child molesting, stealing those are also morals but they have a victium and theres not consent.

    Ill need more than that. again I totally respect YOUR right to have YOUR morals you just dont get to force them on others. Thats way to arrogant and selfish for me

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Everyone who complains about the "traditional meaning" of marriage is missing one extremely important fact. The traditional meaning of marriage does NOT involve the state, it involves a church. The traditional meaning is a promise between a man and woman between God, not a court. The government has no claim to be issuing "traditional marriages" between people as they are a secular body and claim no religious authority. In other words, all that marriage is to the gov't is something you put on your tax forms, which i have no problem letting two men or women do.
    people like to use that word "traditional" but what does that really mean? what makes a tradition? how long? 10 years? 100 years? 1000? years?

    only asking because there were same sex marriages in Rome. While not has common of course as straight marriage they existed none the less. Thats pretty far back so what is tradition.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    I don't think its wrong, but its pretty damn stupid.

    What are we "protecting" when we vote against gay marriage? The right to complain hypocritically?

    There is really no point to be against it, other than standing behind an age-old argument that marriage is an "institution" and that it is an entity itself.

    We make too big a deal out of marriage really, meanwhile our nation has the highest divorce rate. Blocking gay marriage is useless and it makes those supporters look like idiots.

    So if we ever vote to make gay marriage legal, it would be dandy. I personally would not vote because I simply don't care, it doesn't affect me personally so why should I?
    Last edited by Cilogy; 04-30-10 at 02:58 AM.


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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    I don't think its wrong, but its pretty damn stupid.

    What are we "protecting" when we vote against gay marriage? The right to complain hypocritically?

    There is really no point to be against it, other than standing behind an age-old argument that marriage is an "institution" and that it is an entity itself.

    We make too big a deal out of marriage really, meanwhile our nation has the highest divorce rate. Blocking gay marriage is useless and it makes those supporters look like idiots.

    So if we ever vote to make gay marriage legal, it would be dandy. I personally would not vote because I simply don't care, it doesn't affect me personally so why should I?




    thats the part i dont get the most. I dont understand how it effects these people who are against it. Its none of their business who two consenting adults marry dont know how they believe it is.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    Well define morals?
    Rules for proper conduct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    morals based on what? religion? feelings? etc.
    It doesn't matter what they're based on. What matters is that they are agreed upon, taught to our children, and rigorously enforced.

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    heres are small example of what some people find "morally wrong"
    Some people have stupid morals and shouldn't be allowed to make laws. Theoretically, this is what the representative republic is supposed to protect us from-- stupid people with stupid morals making stupid laws. In practice, of course, we find that these stupid people are in the majority and want to be governed by people like them. Democracy is nothing if not a flawed institution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    sorry but in america theres no logic on forcing your morals on me especially when there is no victim.

    Murder, child molesting, stealing those are also morals but they have a victium and theres not consent.
    Consent and victimhood are both moral notions that must be defined by the law before they can be enforced. Child molestation is the perfect example, because it is only a crime by virtue of the fact that the law defines children of being incapable of giving consent-- and thus may be prosecuted despite the victim's wishes.

    Theft is the same. In order for there to be a victim of theft, we have to morally define property and determine the rules by which people may own and exchange property.

    Even murder must be defined morally before it can be enforced as law. Otherwise, what is the difference between murder and manslaughter? What is the acceptable use of force in self-defense? In defense of one's home?

    The answers to all of these questions are moral values. There is no categorical difference between the law which prohibits murder and the laws that prohibit homosexual marriage. The only difference is that most people generally agree with the laws on murder-- with some notable exceptions, such as assisted suicide-- while the laws on homosexual marriage are highly controversial.

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    Ill need more than that. again I totally respect YOUR right to have YOUR morals you just dont get to force them on others. Thats way to arrogant and selfish for me
    By having a system of laws, any laws, we are forcing our morals upon anyone who does not agree with them. By trying to tell me what the government-- my government-- can and can not do, you are trying to force your morals not only upon me, but upon the rest of society. You are proclaiming that your moral values, your specific notions of tolerance and liberty, are superior to the moral values of everyone who disagrees with you and that we should be forced to abide by them.

    I happen to agree with you on gay marriage. It isn't wrong and it shouldn't be prohibited. But I can guarantee you there are at least a dozen things we disagree about in which the law takes your side-- and they are all based on the same wholly subjective moral values that you claim not to be forcing upon anyone.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    Rules for proper conduct.



    1 It doesn't matter what they're based on. What matters is that they are agreed upon, taught to our children, and rigorously enforced.



    2 Some people have stupid morals and shouldn't be allowed to make laws. Theoretically, this is what the representative republic is supposed to protect us from-- stupid people with stupid morals making stupid laws. In practice, of course, we find that these stupid people are in the majority and want to be governed by people like them. Democracy is nothing if not a flawed institution.



    3 Consent and victimhood are both moral notions that must be defined by the law before they can be enforced. Child molestation is the perfect example, because it is only a crime by virtue of the fact that the law defines children of being incapable of giving consent-- and thus may be prosecuted despite the victim's wishes.

    4 Theft is the same. In order for there to be a victim of theft, we have to morally define property and determine the rules by which people may own and exchange property.

    5 Even murder must be defined morally before it can be enforced as law. Otherwise, what is the difference between murder and manslaughter? What is the acceptable use of force in self-defense? In defense of one's home?

    6The answers to all of these questions are moral values. There is no categorical difference between the law which prohibits murder and the laws that prohibit homosexual marriage. The only difference is that most people generally agree with the laws on murder-- with some notable exceptions, such as assisted suicide-- while the laws on homosexual marriage are highly controversial.



    7 By having a system of laws, any laws, we are forcing our morals upon anyone who does not agree with them. By trying to tell me what the government-- my government-- can and can not do, you are trying to force your morals not only upon me, but upon the rest of society. You are proclaiming that your moral values, your specific notions of tolerance and liberty, are superior to the moral values of everyone who disagrees with you and that we should be forced to abide by them.

    8 I happen to agree with you on gay marriage. It isn't wrong and it shouldn't be prohibited. But I can guarantee you there are at least a dozen things we disagree about in which the law takes your side-- and they are all based on the same wholly subjective moral values that you claim not to be forcing upon anyone.
    1 of course it matters in america what the morals are based on! If e dont look at what they are based on rights like freedom of speech and religion can be greatly hindered

    2 so OTHER peole have stupid morals but yours is fine? got it lol

    3,4,5 & 6 these examples the way YOU are using them are MEANINGLESS for the debate at hand, for gay marriage there is NO victim so there no need for law to define it. so that was a waste for "this debate"

    7-8 you actually couldnt be more wrong I am actually for a WIN WIN situation if you want to marry gay, you do, if you dont you dont. That isnt forcing ANYBODY to do anything sorry LMAO

    Like I CLEARLY said other can believe, teach, preach etc whatever they want but they dont get to tell others what to do. my stance allows all to be happy the other stance is the one that wants people to "abide"

    explain to me how my view are forced on anyone Id LOVE to hear this LMAO

    allowing gays to marry doesnt force straights to marry hahahahahaha I am in fact not forcing anything you have it backwards those that stop it are forcing, they are in fact not only forcing their views but denying others of their same rights

    in my system you get to KEEP and ABIDE and LIVE by your own values in the other system I have to live by theirs, hope you know see that

  10. #20
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    also Korimyr the Rat just an FYI
    Sorry if my wording is a little off with the "my view" "your view" "thier view" stuff. I know you said you agree with me so im not trying to single you out just got sloppy with my wording
    Quote Originally Posted by MateoMtnClimber View Post
    Yes, gay people absolutely have the right to infringe on other people's religious rights.
    Quote Originally Posted by RamFel View Post
    Genetically human & human being is exactly the same thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    homosexuality is objectively wrong, but because science tells me it is, not politics.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    I'm not at risk for AIDS. Gays are.

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