View Poll Results: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

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Thread: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

  1. #1871
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    So you don't see the hypocrisy in saying that you are against rules that would restrict marriage according to religious beliefs, when religion is most definitely a choice, but that you are not against rules that restrict marriage according to sexuality because it may be a choice, although that is not conclusive? And there is plenty of evidence to support the "born gay" argument, because the same evidence is true for someone to be "born straight".

    Also, there were actually a lot of state with interracial marriage bans that included Indians and Chinese, as well as blacks. Some states said that everyone had to marry within their own race, and others just restricted who whites could or could not marry. Just to clarify.
    No one religion "owns" marriage, that doesn't make it not a religious ideal. There is no conclusive evidence to support either born gay or born straight. By the way, you did not comment on the quote from the article you provided....

  2. #1872
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Why is it that homosexuality has existed throughout the known history of our species and yet though tolerated, it's never been accepted?
    Because until fairly recently in history, the Bible has been accepted as a literal interpretation of how society should function. Most science was based on it as was most morality. The literal interpretation. Religion has been the issue.

    Further, marriage is a societal function, why wouldn't negative societal impact be a concern? I think ignoring it is narrow minded.
    I never said that negative societal impact wouldn't be a concern. However, you are taking this as your default position, but that position is without any foundation, whereas the positive positon has some.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  3. #1873
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    There is no conclusive evidence to support either born gay or born straight. By the way, you did not comment on the quote from the article you provided....
    You mean where you quoted that he said it might be a developmental stage, but that this was just a many possibilities? I didn't see a reason to comment. I don't believe that he is correct because I see attraction as something you don't have a choice about. I don't believe homosexuality is a stage someone might go through. I believe, from my knowledge and personal feelings/attractions, that people are attracted to certain kinds of people because of certain features/characteristics of those people. Some people may change what their preferences are, but even those changes probably aren't conscience choices. I think most people keep those preferences throughout life. I also believe that some people may have very detailed and specific preferences, while others have general or few preferences. Everyone is different.
    Last edited by roguenuke; 06-26-10 at 09:41 PM.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  4. #1874
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    No one religion "owns" marriage, that doesn't make it not a religious ideal.
    No. Marriage has been around for longer than most current religions. And civil marriage is completely separate from religious marriage. People who have no religion at all can get married. People of different religious beliefs can get a civil marriage, even if they can't get married in one or either of their churches. Civil marriage is a contract between two people to make each other legal family in the eyes of the government, because such unions provide benefits to society and are bestowed benefits/privileges by society because of those benefits. Civil marriage is separate from religious/private marriage. Most of the time, they happen together, but they each can technically exist without each other.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #1875
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You mean where you quoted that he said it might be a developmental stage, but that this was just a many possibilities? I didn't see a reason to comment. I don't believe that he is correct because I see attraction as something you don't have a choice about. I don't believe homosexuality is a stage someone might go through. I believe, from my knowledge and personal feelings/attractions, that people are attracted to certain kinds of people because of certain features/characteristics of those people. Some people may change what their preferences are, but even those changes probably aren't conscience choices. I think most people keep those preferences throughout life. I also believe that some people may have very detailed and specific preferences, while others have general or few preferences. Everyone is different.
    So, basically what you're saying is that you have your opinion on the issue and no matter who says what, you believe what you believe. Right?

  6. #1876
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No. Marriage has been around for longer than most current religions. And civil marriage is completely separate from religious marriage. People who have no religion at all can get married. People of different religious beliefs can get a civil marriage, even if they can't get married in one or either of their churches. Civil marriage is a contract between two people to make each other legal family in the eyes of the government, because such unions provide benefits to society and are bestowed benefits/privileges by society because of those benefits. Civil marriage is separate from religious/private marriage. Most of the time, they happen together, but they each can technically exist without each other.
    Actually, the modern concept of marriage is most likely a construct of the early Catholic church.

  7. #1877
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Because until fairly recently in history, the Bible has been accepted as a literal interpretation of how society should function. Most science was based on it as was most morality. The literal interpretation. Religion has been the issue.



    I never said that negative societal impact wouldn't be a concern. However, you are taking this as your default position, but that position is without any foundation, whereas the positive positon has some.
    It is only without foundation in this particular subject because it has yet to occur. Open it up to comparison to other changes in society and the impacts that have occured there. Christianity is not the only religion opposed to same sex marriage. There is little indication that it was accepted on any scale prior to Christianity.

  8. #1878
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    So, basically what you're saying is that you have your opinion on the issue and no matter who says what, you believe what you believe. Right?
    I'm saying I don't really care if it is a choice or not, because homosexuality does not harm anyone, so why should it be discriminated against? I don't believe it is a choice because I know that it would take some serious effort on my part to even consider sleeping with a woman, and I can't imagine choosing to sleep with a woman rather than a man, if given a choice. I am not attracted to women. They don't turn me on. It doesn't matter to me if this was caused by genetics, hormones, actually physical environmental factors, how I was raised, my life experiences, or a combination of some or all of these. It is not a conscience choice for me to be attracted to men, and specifically to be in love with my husband. If I could choose to be in love or even attracted to someone I wasn't, then I would have married much earlier than I did to someone I know would have treated me pretty much like a queen and given me anything I wanted. But in the end, it doesn't matter to me why I am attracted to who I am or why others are, as long as their relationships are healthy and happy for me/them.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  9. #1879
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    It is only without foundation in this particular subject because it has yet to occur.
    It's without foundation on ANY scale. The pro side has foundation in smaller groups.

    Open it up to comparison to other changes in society and the impacts that have occured there.
    Sure. And you have mentioned some. And the ones that you have mentioned have been more beneficial to society than they have been harmful.

    Christianity is not the only religion opposed to same sex marriage. There is little indication that it was accepted on any scale prior to Christianity.
    mac, you have a tendency to take general positions of mine and try to turn them into more narrow ones. I never said "Christianity". I said religion. That encompasses all religions. Remember, the OT dates back further than the beginnings of Chrstianity. Further, though most of the societies that we have information on are since the birth of Christ, those that date back further had their own religous or moral reasonings. Non-acceptance of homosexuality in societies has been near exclusively a religious/morality issue. It has only been recently that science has demonstrated that these beliefs are faulty.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  10. #1880
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Actually, the modern concept of marriage is most likely a construct of the early Catholic church.
    Whose concept of marriage? My civil marriage is a contract between my husband and I, which is endorsed by the government to make us family. My private marriage is a promise that my husband and I made to each other during a ceremony, in front of our friends and family, to be together for life. We had no mention of God in our ceremony. And my husband has told me jokingly that if the government ever tried to insist that every marriage had to be an actual religious ceremony, then we would be getting married in the woods naked.

    I have heard of plenty of different weddings and marriages. I have been to several weddings, which were all quite different. Mine was in the front lawn of a horse farm. I was at one in a small wedding chapel. I was in another that took place in the officiant's back yard. I attended an actual Catholic wedding as well. The only thing that was the same about all of them was there was a bride, a groom, and someone there to marry them. My officiant even told me that she did a wedding ceremony in a hot tub.

    The Catholic Church incorporated a lot of traditions into many of its ceremonies, including a wedding, from earlier cultures.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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