View Poll Results: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

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    186 43.26%
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Thread: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

  1. #1841
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Amen to that.
    The people have spoken....no to homosexual marriage.
    Lets put this one to bed, its had more than enough air time.
    Nope; the nation is divided nearly 50/50 on it.
    When 49% of the populace is unhappy with a ruling (including many of those in positions of power), I can assure you, it won't simply be "put to bed".
    It will be brought to the polls again and again, until we get our way and the discrimination ceases.
    You see, we're on the side of right, and we care more than you do, and American citizens are coming to their senses and converting to pro-equal-rights supporters at a phenomenal rate (for example, I imagine that the rate of equal-marriage-right supporters has more than doubled in the past ten years).

    In five years or so, this battle will be won.
    Then we can "put it to bed" and move on, because progressive, egalitarian gains in society (such as the civil rights movement, or the women's liberation movement) do not tend to be lost; it is unlikely we will ever lose the right to same-sex marriage, once we've gained it.
    Not until then can the matter be "put to bed", though.
    Last edited by 1069; 06-26-10 at 03:26 PM.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    You just said: Since there is no conclusive proof of the causation of sexual orientation, the legitimacy of a sexual orientation cannot be scientifically based on genetics, biology, or biochemistry. Therefore, to scientifically legitimatize either or each, another foundation must be used. And then said the above. Is there, or is there not, Conclusive proof, scientifically?
    You are again confusing two different issues: causation and legitimacy. There is no conclusive scientific proof of causation of a sexual orientation. That does NOT disqualify any sexual orientation from being legitimate. Both are proven to be so. Causation and legitimacy can be mutually exclusive.
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  3. #1843
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    Nope; the nation is divided nearly 50/50 on it.
    When 49% of the populace is unhappy with a ruling (including many of those in positions of power), I can assure you, it won't simply be "put to bed".
    It will be brought to the polls again and again, until we get our way and the discrimination ceases.
    You see, we're on the side of right, and we care more than you do, and American citizens are coming to their senses and converting to pro-equal-rights supporters at a phenomenal rate (for example, I imagine that the rate of equal-marriage-right supporters has more than doubled in the past ten years).

    In five years or so, this battle will be won.
    Then we can "put it to bed" and move on, because progressive, egalitarian gains in society (such as the civil rights movement, or the women's liberation movement) do not tend to be lost; it is unlikely we will ever lose the right to same-sex marriage, once we've gained it.
    Not until then can the matter be "put to bed", though.
    even lower when asked properly, polls are tricky things, for example healthcare, when people were asked if they were simply "happy" with their health care large numbers said yes, but when asked if they think it needs improved or reformed large number also said yes

    thats why in this very thread many people said they arent for the gay lifestyle and may not "support" it but they could never be selfish enough to stop it. Trust me I know Im one of them, Im not a gay fan but in america its none of my business nor does it effect me what so ever, i will not discriminate against my fellow american.
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    You are again confusing two different issues: causation and legitimacy. There is no conclusive scientific proof of causation of a sexual orientation. That does NOT disqualify any sexual orientation from being legitimate. Both are proven to be so. Causation and legitimacy can be mutually exclusive.
    Oh, I get what you're saying. I disagree with that conclusion, but I get your point.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Why does it matter either way if it is a choice? Religion is a choice, and we still protect religious people's right to marry, even outside their religion.

    Of course, I believe it isn't a choice, just from my own experience. I am heterosexual. I know this because I was never sexually attracted to women, only men. I will on occasion say a woman is pretty or is a good looking woman, but women don't arouse me the way some men do. In fact, some men don't arouse me. I think very little about attraction is a choice. Even if it is caused more by nurture, it doesn't make it wrong. There is nothing wrong with being homosexual, just like there is nothing wrong with being attracted to men with short hair or girls with big hips. The only time attractions are wrong is when those attractions cause harm to someone (or in the case of beastiality, to something). Perceived harm to morality is not real harm. There is no proof that homosexuality causes harm to anyone. Provide proof of harm to people and/or society that is exclusively caused by homosexual relationships, and then you might have a case against homosexual relationships.
    Honestly, because if it were not a choice then I would indeed believe it to be discrimination and would support gay marriage despite my personal misgivings. Yes, religion is a choice, but it's a choice acceptable to society as a whole.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    I stand by my statement that most people are aware of their sexual orientation from earliest childhood.
    One doesn't "discover" one is gay at puberty.
    It is normal and typical for young children to have schoolyard crushes and even pair up in innocent boyfriend/girlfriend "relationships" in elementary school.
    I recall this from my own childhood as well as my children's.

    It's unbelievable to me that some here are claiming not to have known their own sexual orientation until puberty or later.
    You were seriously unaware you were heterosexual until then?
    Just kind of hanging around waiting for puberty so you could find out whether or not you were gay?

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Ok, but in kindergarten? Age 5?
    Sometimes, yes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  8. #1848
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Honestly, because if it were not a choice then I would indeed believe it to be discrimination and would support gay marriage despite my personal misgivings. Yes, religion is a choice, but it's a choice acceptable to society as a whole.
    That depends on the religion. There are a lot of people who have issues with certain religions, including Satanism. Would you support a marriage law against Satanists being allowed to get married? Would you approve if there was enough support for it, to deny people the right to marry someone outside their own religion or to deny people who weren't religious the right to marry? There are some religions that completely disapprove of marrying someone outside your own religion. What if it were just one state that had a law denying people who weren't religious or who were of two different religions from being able to marry?
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    That depends on the religion. There are a lot of people who have issues with certain religions, including Satanism. Would you support a marriage law against Satanists being allowed to get married? Would you approve if there was enough support for it, to deny people the right to marry someone outside their own religion or to deny people who weren't religious the right to marry? There are some religions that completely disapprove of marrying someone outside your own religion. What if it were just one state that had a law denying people who weren't religious or who were of two different religions from being able to marry?
    Though there are some religions that will not recognize marriage on some level, that's really not the issue. What is the issue is society's acceptance. Marriage is defined by most religions as a union between Man and a Woman. The concept of Marriage is religious while the legality is secular. That puts legalization squarely in the hands of society, in America at least.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Though there are some religions that will not recognize marriage on some level, that's really not the issue. What is the issue is society's acceptance. Marriage is defined by most religions as a union between Man and a Woman. The concept of Marriage is religious while the legality is secular. That puts legalization squarely in the hands of society, in America at least.
    The benefits of marriage are given by the government. We are talking about civil marriage in this discussion. It doesn't matter what a religion or certain people wish to accept/recognize as marriage. It matters that the laws governing marriage are treat people equally. So I'll ask again, if a state, let's say Utah, decides that they want to deny marriage to couples of different religions, would it be okay? Would it be okay if a state denied marriage to couples who weren't religious?

    BTW, I'll add that marriage is not fully in the hands of what society finds acceptable. A good portion of society did not find interracial marriage acceptable. Interracial marriage was deemed to be protected because marriage is a right and denying it due to race is discrimination. The pro-GM side is saying that it is also discrimination to deny it to homosexuals, because there is no reasonable state/government interest in making restrictions on the gender of the person another is allowed to marry.
    Last edited by roguenuke; 06-26-10 at 04:49 PM.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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