View Poll Results: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

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    186 43.26%
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Thread: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

  1. #1781
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    mac, are you honestly suggesting that gay marriage might cause humankind to all become homosexual? Because if you really think this is possible, ROFL. I really can't stop laughing. I can't even fathom how that would be possible.
    Not exactly. I think it's a pretty far fetched example of what could possibly happen. Just pointing out that it's possible there might be an outcome noone sees comming.

    Do you really think that homosexuality is somehow more desirable a sexuality than heterosexuality? Personally, even though I am all for homosexuals having the right to marry their partners, I myself would not "convert" to homosexuality, even if I thought it was possible, nor would I "teach" my children to be homosexual. I will teach my children that it is okay to be either homosexual or heterosexual or bisexual, but that it should be based on who they are attracted to, not who someone says they should be attracted to.
    No. What I said was that since one of the factors generally accepted as a "cause" of homosexuality is environment, then a greater number of homesexuals in that environment could concievably create a greater chance of homosexuality in developeing children.

    Also, how does homosexuals having the right to marry lead to teaching people to be homosexual? Homosexuality is already legal, and homosexuals are raising children, both their own biological children and adopted children. I just can't see your reasoning here.
    It all depends on your point of view. Along with environmental factors being a cause of homosexuality, there are most likely environmental inhibitors as well. The stigmas associated, for example. What happens when these inhibitors are eradicated?

  2. #1782
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Not exactly. I think it's a pretty far fetched example of what could possibly happen. Just pointing out that it's possible there might be an outcome noone sees comming.



    No. What I said was that since one of the factors generally accepted as a "cause" of homosexuality is environment, then a greater number of homesexuals in that environment could concievably create a greater chance of homosexuality in developeing children.



    It all depends on your point of view. Along with environmental factors being a cause of homosexuality, there are most likely environmental inhibitors as well. The stigmas associated, for example. What happens when these inhibitors are eradicated?
    Actually, research suggests that it is most likely a combination of environmental factors, genetics, and in-utero environment. But this would be all sexuality, not just homosexuality. The only thing that should happen if you remove social stigmas, is that more homosexuals will come out of the closet and accept who they are. This may raise the numbers of homosexuals or bisexuals we know of as a society, but that number should even out at what the natural amount should be. What you are suggesting just isn't really probable due to the fact that there really isn't anything more desirable about being homosexual over heterosexual. It's not like it comes with any extra benefits to be attracted to someone of the same sex, especially not naturally.

    Plus, it is highly unlikely that everyone will automatically accept homosexuality as normal and/or healthy just because gays are allowed to wed. There are still people who don't accept interracial couples as normal or healthy relationships. There are many people out there that consider homosexuality a sin or just plain wrong/unnatural, but are still willing to accept that civil marriage is a legal contract for the government, and they should keep their personal beliefs out of who should be restricted from civil marriages, as long as the relationships are considered legal.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  3. #1783
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    What you are suggesting just isn't really probable due to the fact that there really isn't anything more desirable about being homosexual over heterosexual.
    What does it's desireability have to do with it? I've heard over and over that "homosexuality is not a choice." If it's a product of environmental factors, then a higher number of homosexuals in the environment is likely to affect the outcome.

  4. #1784
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Not exactly. I think it's a pretty far fetched example of what could possibly happen. Just pointing out that it's possible there might be an outcome noone sees comming.
    Right, because we can see from history that's what happened. When the ancient Greeks allowed homosexuality, what happened? They died out, and now there are no more Greeks.

    And in Canada, Europe, and in those states where gay marriage has become legal, no one ever gets married to people of the opposite sex any more. Why, the populations of these places is dwindling too, and soon there will be no one left in Massachusetts and Iowa.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    What does it's desireability have to do with it? I've heard over and over that "homosexuality is not a choice." If it's a product of environmental factors, then a higher number of homosexuals in the environment is likely to affect the outcome.
    You are starting with the assumption that nature would have no effect on how many people will be homosexual. This is not very likely, even if we just look at homosexuality occurring in other animals. Do you think homosexual animals teach the other offspring of the species to be homosexual? We know that those animal species that exhibit homosexual behavior still exist. There isn't some snowball effect that causes those animals to generationally increase the number of their species that are homosexual until the entire species is homosexual (unless you think there is any proof that this may be how the dinosaurs died out?).

    Also, it's not like homosexual parents or heterosexual parents that teach their children that homosexuality is okay, are actually influencing them to become homosexual. It is just more likely that those children will realize that it is okay to be homosexual or bisexual, as well as heterosexual. In nature, heterosexuality is most desired for a species to continue to survive. So, naturally speaking, most people should be heterosexual. The number of homosexual people won't actually increase significantly. There will most likely be an increase in how many people accept their homosexuality or bisexuality and/or how many people are open about it. We know now that there are a lot of homosexual and bisexual people who don't accept that they could be that way due to social stigma against it or theirs or their family's objections (most likely due to religion) of homosexuality.

    There may be some unnatural difference in how many people are homosexual or bisexual compared to heterosexual, but it would most likely be almost small for at homosexuality by itself. Truthfully, I'd be willing to bet that it would most likely be more of an increase in bisexuality, not homosexuality. This would be due to a bigger acceptance that it is okay and natural to be with whoever you are attracted to, not just who is acceptable by society and/or a person's family or religious views.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    this coversation is pointless youre not going stop people from being gay weve had gay members of society for thousand of years. live and let live

  7. #1787
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You are starting with the assumption that nature would have no effect on how many people will be homosexual. This is not very likely, even if we just look at homosexuality occurring in other animals. Do you think homosexual animals teach the other offspring of the species to be homosexual? We know that those animal species that exhibit homosexual behavior still exist. There isn't some snowball effect that causes those animals to generationally increase the number of their species that are homosexual until the entire species is homosexual (unless you think there is any proof that this may be how the dinosaurs died out?).
    The homosexual animals that you speak of (such as Bonobos) aren't exactly homosexual. They exhibit social behaviors which appear homosexual in nature but are thought to be for purely social reasons. Also, these animals do not refrain from heterosexual intercourse.

    Also, it's not like homosexual parents or heterosexual parents that teach their children that homosexuality is okay, are actually influencing them to become homosexual.
    This isn't even close to what i said, either I'm not explaining my position well enough or you are refusing to understand it. What i said is that a greater number of homosexuals in the developing child's environment, combined with a general acceptance of the orientation will likely raise the occurrence of homosexuality. I am in no way implying that people will intentionally influence someone to be gay. I don't know how to be any more clear on that point.

    There may be some unnatural difference in how many people are homosexual or bisexual compared to heterosexual, but it would most likely be almost small for at homosexuality by itself. Truthfully, I'd be willing to bet that it would most likely be more of an increase in bisexuality, not homosexuality. This would be due to a bigger acceptance that it is okay and natural to be with whoever you are attracted to, not just who is acceptable by society and/or a person's family or religious views.
    No more or less a possibility that what I've stated. So, I agree with you, sorta.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Your analogy in this case doesn't quite cut it, because how you use it is more accurately described as people kill people, not cars kill people. But, just to illustrate a possibility: In my view homosexuality is a learned behavior resulting from environmental influences. Let's say that after homosexuality becomes mainstream, and more prevalant we see a progressibvely greater number of homosexuals emerge due to that greater environmental influence. Eventually, our species could die out if the severity of decreasing birth rate is realized too late. The severity being as related to the lack of genetic diversity as it is to the diminshed number of new people being born to carry on the species. Science fiction, I know, I know, but since environmental influence is generaly recognized as a major factor in homosexuality, what would greater environmental influence cause?
    ummm... what? Our species could die out? I can't speak for everybody, but I will only ever have sex with women. AS you say, science fiction, and the operative word is "fiction". I can't see taking fiction and making it an argument to deny people rights especially off the basis that nobody knows what even causes homosexuality.

    Originally Posted by roguenuke
    Do you really think that homosexuality is somehow more desirable a sexuality than heterosexuality? Personally, even though I am all for homosexuals having the right to marry their partners, I myself would not "convert" to homosexuality, even if I thought it was possible, nor would I "teach" my children to be homosexual. I will teach my children that it is okay to be either homosexual or heterosexual or bisexual, but that it should be based on who they are attracted to, not who someone says they should be attracted to.
    I know what you mean, but "teach" is probably not the right word. I will just "accept" my daughters for who they are and what they become, whether it is homo or hetero sexual.
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  9. #1789
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    The homosexual animals that you speak of (such as Bonobos) aren't exactly homosexual. They exhibit social behaviors which appear homosexual in nature but are thought to be for purely social reasons. Also, these animals do not refrain from heterosexual intercourse.

    This isn't even close to what i said, either I'm not explaining my position well enough or you are refusing to understand it. What i said is that a greater number of homosexuals in the developing child's environment, combined with a general acceptance of the orientation will likely raise the occurrence of homosexuality. I am in no way implying that people will intentionally influence someone to be gay. I don't know how to be any more clear on that point.



    No more or less a possibility that what I've stated. So, I agree with you, sorta.
    You're wrong about the animals. Although most may actually be engaging in more of bisexual behavior, there is still actual homosexual behavior that has been observed to occur in almost 1500 species of animals, not just apes.

    Homosexual behavior in animals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Homosexual Activity Among Animals Stirs Debate
    Homosexual behaviour widespread in animals according to new study - Telegraph

    Also, I'm not purposely trying to misunderstand anything. What is most likely to happen, is future generations will learn acceptance of different sexualities. There is no research to support or logical reason to even believe that an increased acceptance of homosexualy will cause an actual decrease in heterosexuality, and most certainly not to the point where our existence as a species will be at stake.

    And, actually, yes there is more of a possibility of seeing an increase in bisexuality, whether it is due to more people being honest with themselves and/or society about who they are actually attracted to or just an increase in people being more open sexually due to the lack of social stigma against it, than there is of homosexuality increasing to the point that our species is at risk of dying out. I don't know if what I suggest will actually happen, but it is certainly a possibility, unlike your scenario.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  10. #1790
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    ummm... what? Our species could die out? I can't speak for everybody, but I will only ever have sex with women. AS you say, science fiction, and the operative word is "fiction". I can't see taking fiction and making it an argument to deny people rights especially off the basis that nobody knows what even causes homosexuality.
    There are many commonly accepted aspects of modern society that would have been considered science fiction 50, 100, or 1000 years ago. You have no way of knowing, now, what will occur in the future or what won't.

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