View Poll Results: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

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    186 43.26%
  • Yes, explain

    244 56.74%
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Thread: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

  1. #1741
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    I'm not going to dismiss this out of hand, but when the only person that they interviewed in opposition was an evangelical, you have to understand that there is some bias there....There were no real details of the the lives of the brothers discussed so that tells me that those details would have altered a pretty biased approach to the issue. Also, no scientific proof was offered.
    Yes no proof was offered but you did hear a genetic biologists professional opinion. I have yet to see a scientist say "It is a learned process and biology has no place in it". The only ones saying that are typically unqualified religious people.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Sorely lacking what? Polygamists tend to be very family oriented....what's wrong with it? It's not my thing, I've got my hands full with one wife and frankly, the idea of a second is terrifying. But just because it's not good for my family, who am I to say it can't work for someone else?
    I need to consolidate my posts into one thread. Someone on the other GM thread was questioning whether there was more than one study on the effects of gay parents on children... all which I posted here. Now you are wondering about the negatives of polygamy... of which I posted on the other thread. I'll repost it here for your perusal.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    But, you see, this entire, "if we allow homosexual marriage, polygamy is next" argument is extraordinarily weak, considering that the similarities between the two do not exist. Allow me to explain from both an individual and a societal standpoint.

    First. let us take a look at the difference between homosexuals and heterosexuals. The striking difference is obvious. Homosexuals have a sexual orientation towards those of the same sex, whereas heterosexuals have a sexual orientation towards those of the opposite sex. Why would a heterosexual woman want to marry a man? Sexual orientation. Why would a homosexual man want to marry a man? Sexual orientation. Clearly, from an individual standpoint, this is a, if not the main reason for one wanting to marry a specific other. Love, attraction, emotion. Now, this does not justify gay marriage being validated, and, in fact is a weak argument that I never make. Love, attraction, and emotion does not benefit the state, which is why marriage exists. However, polygamy does not fit well in the criteria that I have identified. There is no polygamous sexual orientation. Polygamy is, typically, a heterosexual orientation, covered already. However, being that there is no polygamous sexual orientation, using this, a mainstay of the individual reason for marriage, will not work or apply. Therefore, polygamy from an individual standpoint, does not meet the same criteria for marriage as do homosexuals or heterosexuals. Lack of orientation.

    Now, we move into the societal realm. Government supports marriage for a few reasons. The productive rearing of children is most important. Creating a stable family life is also key: it adds to the positive potential for healthy children, but it also creates healthy adults. There is plenty of evidence to support the theory that those who live in a healthy, stable, committed relationship, are happier, healthier, and are more productive members of society. These are all things that benefit the state. Research shows that, regardless of sexual orientation, gay or straight, folks who live in these kinds of committed relationships, do better, and rear children better, than those who do not. This is regardless of sexual orientation. This is the second piece of the argument that will, eventually win the day for gay marriage. Polygamy does not offer the same benefits. And the answer to "why" is simple, and is psychological in nature. Jealousy, rivalry, and inconsistency. Just like my argument that psychology cannot be separated from economics, hence, because of greed, pure forms of both socialism and libertarianism are destined to be complete failures, neither can human psychology be separated from this issue. What is the number one cause of divorce? Adultery. Why? Jealousy and rivalry. In a multi-partner marriage, it would be impossible for their not to be some sort of hierarchy, and even if this is agreed upon, one cannot eliminate one's emotions. With this type of emotional instability at the familial structure's core, a healthy, committed relationship, similar to that of a single partner marriage, could not be obtained. Further, the inconsistency in caretaking responsibilities and in child rearing responsibilities, compounded by the hierarchies and rivalries will harm the children, affecting their functioning. We already see some of this in divorced families, where inconsistent rules, non-existent co-parenting, and rivalries, negatively affect children.

    Lastly, though there is plenty of research that supports both heterosexual and homosexual unions as being beneficial, there is none that supports polygamy.

    All of this shows how there is not correlation nor slippery slope from homosexual to polygamous marriage. Polygamy, for the reasons I identified, is not only a very different animal than homosexual marriage, but has none of the similar benefits to the state that the government currently sees marriage as.

    Polygamy as a reaction to homosexual marriage is a smokescreen and an invalid comparison.
    Now, also remember. We have research that demonstrates the benefits of gay partnerships both to the individuals and children. There is no such research that demonstrates the same for plural marriage.
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    but polygamous marriages were practised for most of human history, therefore it must be good
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

  4. #1744
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I need to consolidate my posts into one thread. Someone on the other GM thread was questioning whether there was more than one study on the effects of gay parents on children... all which I posted here. Now you are wondering about the negatives of polygamy... of which I posted on the other thread. I'll repost it here for your perusal.



    Now, also remember. We have research that demonstrates the benefits of gay partnerships both to the individuals and children. There is no such research that demonstrates the same for plural marriage.
    I don't argue the research that you posted regarding homosexual child rearing. I'm wondering a bit about your conclusions on polygamy though? Is this based on research and studies as your stance on gm is? Or are they your own assumptions?

    I'm not saying that in reality gm and pm are in the same boat, however, as an argument to what the government should have a role in it is a valid point. There are certainly those that would want pm legalized and I am sure that they will use gm as precedence for redefining marriage.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    I don't argue the research that you posted regarding homosexual child rearing. I'm wondering a bit about your conclusions on polygamy though? Is this based on research and studies as your stance on gm is? Or are they your own assumptions?

    For the most part, they are extrapolations based on research in regards to relationships, straight marriage, gay marriage, definitions of sexual orientation, governmental/societal needs, and psychology around families, relationships, and child rearing. There is some research on polygamous relationships involved, also.

    I'm not saying that in reality gm and pm are in the same boat, however, as an argument to what the government should have a role in it is a valid point. There are certainly those that would want pm legalized and I am sure that they will use gm as precedence for redefining marriage.
    You could be correct about that, however, as you have said, repeatedly, it is up to the voters to make this decision. Since polygamy is illegal, and there is no consideration that there is any medical, genetic, psychological, or biological component to polygamy, not only will the votes fall short, but the research does not support it. My entire point is comparing GM with PM is like comparing apples and airplanes. They are very different situations, whereas GM and traditional marriage are very similar.
    Last edited by CaptainCourtesy; 06-19-10 at 05:53 AM.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  6. #1746
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    How about polygamy or other forms of plural marriage? Should the government have a say in that?
    I don't think so. I'm all for polygamous and polyandrous marriages being allowed. People should be able to have whatever kind of relationships they are comfortable with. And, should someone in a relationship ever become uncomfortable with it, they should be able to leave it easily.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    I don't think so. I'm all for polygamous and polyandrous marriages being allowed. People should be able to have whatever kind of relationships they are comfortable with. And, should someone in a relationship ever become uncomfortable with it, they should be able to leave it easily.
    Marry who, what, where and how many you want, whenever you want, and split when you feel like it. Awesome! Where do I sign up??

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    In short: Marriage to whoever is none of the governments business, church doctrines is none of the governments business. The constitution is everyone's business.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    You are implying that you take the literal word of scripture and apply it to today. I am saying that I take the literal word of scripture, understand the historical context and, with that in mind, apply it to today. We interpret the bible differently.
    The historical context does not really change anything as far as the NT goes. I do the same with the OT, as it is a good reference to what God wants for us. You are not interpreting it differently. You are taking what you want and leaving the rest.

    If you could give me an example? Like mine involving the OT. I ask because maybe I am missing something.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 06-19-10 at 01:03 PM.
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    In short: Marriage to whoever is none of the governments business, church doctrines is none of the governments business. The constitution is everyone's business.
    I agree, Churches have an absolute right to deny marriage to gays. I understand someone being against Gay marriage at a church level but that is completely different than marriage at a government level.

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