View Poll Results: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

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  • No

    186 43.26%
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Thread: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

  1. #161
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Bull****! There are 8 to 10 million children of gay parents and same sex couples. It's the same damn statistic you yourself had me dig up months ago from the child welfare information gateway. Find me a statistic that says there are anywhere near that many incestuous families. I'm two words away from ignoring you Jerry and your ludicrous arguments.
    Oh I thought you said you didn't have numbers on how many gay couples were raising children.

    If you know how many gay couples there are, and you know how many children are being raised by gay couples, then you can do some 4th grade math to discover the % of gay couples raising children for comparison to the previously referenced census number on married heteros.

    You said you didn't have those numbers, so when you gave the 8 to 10 million number out of context I wasn't sure of what you were talking about.

  2. #162
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Are you talking about people that that could pass on sickle cell anemia?
    I had the step-parent dynamic in mine (high-risk of divorcing), but sure that works as well.

    The number one cause for divorce of first marriages in the US are fights about money.The number one cause for divorce of second marriages in the US being fights about control in step-parent families. So, it follows that anyone who cares about marriage will include safeguards to resolve these problems.

    Gays are equal to heteros. Fine, that means they will also have a 50% divorce rate.

    I don't see how "gays will also have a 50% divorce rate" helps reduce the divorce rate.
    Last edited by Jerry; 05-02-10 at 11:57 AM.

  3. #163
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    To reduce the divorce rate, lower stress in the home, and assist the general welfare of the family. This in turn lowers the juvenile crime rate, teen pregnancy, teen abortion, and increases academic performance.



    The same people who set all the other standards which currently exist today.
    Wow guy you make no sense sometimes, first you say you would vote against it, then you say you dont care, then you say gay men are unstable they shouldnt marry then you say if its two parents its more stable they should marry, then you say remove government from marriage, now you want government in marriage to set standards etc etc

    could you possible try and more spinning, back peddling and changing of opinion when you cant defend it LMAO

    its very obvious now you just have no clue what you are talking about, you just want to debate but arent even capable of keeping the same opinion or on point, ive never talked to a person so lost and cluess on a subject like this lol
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  4. #164
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    Wow guy you make no sense sometimes, first you say you would vote against it, then you say you dont care, then you say gay men are unstable they shouldnt marry then you say if its two parents its more stable they should marry, then you say remove government from marriage, now you want government in marriage to set standards etc etc

    could you possible try and more spinning, back peddling and changing of opinion when you cant defend it LMAO

    its very obvious now you just have no clue what you are talking about, you just want to debate but aren't even capable of keeping the same opinion or on point, ive never talked to a person so lost and cluess on a subject like this lol
    You've never encountered someone who's vote was conditional?

    When gay marriage is about rights and equality, I oppose it, because marriage per-se is not about rights and equality.

    When gay marriage is about the raising and socializing of children, I support it, because marriage per-se is about the raising and socializing of children.

    You keep asserting that gay marriage is about rights and equality, so it follows that I would argue against you as I oppose gay marriage on those grounds.

    You deny that marriage per-se is about children and family, that it's about "consenting adults", so you and I will probably argue against each other until the end of time even though we both support gays getting married.

    Funny isn't it
    Last edited by Jerry; 05-02-10 at 01:26 PM.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Marriage is a sacred contract between a man and a woman. This must never change. This should be respected by the homosexuals, evidently, it is not...There is such a thing as going too far.
    A state approved union between two men or two women , however repugnant, disgusting is OK with me.
    Not all is peaches and cream, in our society, nor can it be.

    I am in the 21% minority here.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    ....., so you and I will probably argue against each other until the end of time even though we both support gays getting married.
    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Marriage is a sacred contract between a man and a woman. This must never change. This should be respected by the homosexuals, evidently, it is not...There is such a thing as going too far.
    See that?

    The Conservative supports gay-marriage while the Independent opposes it.

    Makes you think twice about all the political stereotypes, aye?

  7. #167
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Generally speaking, I am somewhat opposed to gay marriage.

    The problem I have with the OP is the presumption that being for gay marriage is the default, as if it is some inborn right that is being denied. I have yet to be persuaded of this.

    I've given my reasons before. Historically, marriage has been almost universally a male-female union, with the implication that children will likely be born and raised in the family. This has held true throughout almost all cultures and almost all periods of history, with a very few rare exceptions. Even societies where homosexuality was widespread and widely accepted (ancient Greek city-states, certain limited periods in ancient Rome), marriage was still almost exclusively reserved for male-female unions with the implication that childrearing was a primary purpose.

    The default state of marriage is male-female. Allowing same-sex marriage (SSM hereafter) would be a redefining of the institution. The burden of proof that SSM is necessary and positive is therefore on the supporters of SSM, not the defenders of traditional marriage. I have yet to be convinced that such a redefinition is a societal positive, necessary, or without unintended consequences.

    Marriage has historically been as much about family (ie children) as about simply coupledom. SSM does not, in and of itself, produce children without the intervention of a 3rd party who is not part of the union... making "gay marriage" questionable in another sense. (Yes, I know not all straights have children, but in the normal course of events most straight marriages do, and no SSM marriage results in conception without outside aid.) There is a legitimate societal intrest in the production and upbringing of children.

    I have been told that there are studies showing that children raised by gay couples do as well as children raised by straight couples; I have to question whether these studies could be agenda-driven, and have yet to be persuaded that they are not. I have been told that children of gay couples are no more likely to grow up to be gay than children of straight couples, but I have yet to see links to these studies. I remain somewhat dubious that a child does as well raised by SSM parents as by a traditional family with both male and female role-models. I have been presented no data on what percentage of gay couples who wish to marry have any intrest in adopting or raising children.

    What percentage of the population wishes to be married as SSMs? Certainly not all GLBTs do. Is it one percent? Two percent? Should society force a redefinition of marriage on 90-97% of the population for the sake of the desires of 1 or 2 percent? Not without some very compelling reasons.

    Another concern I have falls under Unintended Consequences, or unexpected consequences, or 'where does it go from here'? Before someone brings up the slippery slope fallacy, check my sig: that fallacy does not apply when someone is pushing an agenda, and using one success as a staging point for their next item.

    It would be hard to justify maintaining a ban on polygamous/polyanderous/polyamorous/group marriages for long, once SSM is widely legitimized. What further effects might these changes have on the institution of marriage and family in our society? I have seen no studies.

    Many gays are content to live their lives and let others do likewise; however there is a certain small but vocal percentage of gays who could be classified as "militant activists". This group is not, and never will be, satisfied with tolerance, but instead wishes to push "forced acceptance". If SSM becomes the law of the land, how long before someone sues the Catholic Church in an attempt to force them to perform gay marriage ceremonies and accept gay couples as "married in the church"?

    This militant group concerns me. What is next on their agenda? I have actually had people tell me that I am committing child abuse if I teach my child that homosexuality is wrong. Will the next item on the agenda be an attempt to make teaching/preaching against homosexuality a crime? It has happened in other countries... I've heard there are laws on the books in Canada that could cause a minister to be jailed for preaching against homosexuality, even if there is no advocacy of violence involved (as there usually isn't).

    An activist movement is based on movement. When one goal is achieved, another must be found to maintain the momentum and cohesion of the activist organization. The leadership must always agitate that there is yet one more wrong that must be righted, one more bastion of resistance that must be overrun. Witness the likes of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, who seem not to realize that we have probably come as close to achieving MLK's "dream" as we're likely to come, and continue to act as if it is still 1960.

    I remain concerned that accepting SSM and making it the law of the land may not be in society's best intrests as I see it.
    Last edited by Goshin; 05-02-10 at 02:58 PM.

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  8. #168
    Sporadic insanity normal.


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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    actually you are wrong again because you could still not "accept" it and THINK its wrong and BELIEVE its wrong and TEACH its wrong but once you stop it you are denying people rights that you already have and that’s what makes you a hypocrite

    What if said religion said no kids before marriage? Are you going to defend that and have a non-acceptance of it? Guess those kids should be taken away.

    What if said religion said no sex before marriage, arrest people who do?
    What if religion was against masturbation? Arrest them too?

    sorry not good enough by any stretch of the imagination because once we only do things by YOUR or ONE religion we violate the right of FREEDOM OF RELIGION
    I was not speaking of "stopping" it, but of "non-acceptance" of it.

    The two are not the same.

    And you seem to be under the false impression that this hypothetical religion I presented is one I hold as my own.

    I was speaking of "non-acceptance" as just that - not accepting something.

    Not actively seeking to prevent it.

    My opinions/views on this issue of gay marriage, if they were not already clear, are as follows:

    • Religious marriage between two persons, no matter their sex(s), is a religious matter, and thus should be hashed out between the religions, with no government/secular involvement.
      Indeed, if my understanding is correct, government/secular involvement to support/control/stop such would be unconstitutional.
    • Legal marriage between two persons, no matter their sex(s), should be renamed to "civil union" or some such, perhaps of more than one type, hopefully preventing those who take issue with gay marriages from taking issue.
      After all, if it's a solely secular issue, using religious views to dictate to it would ALSO be unconstitutional.
    • The two should not be connected in anyway, and should be separated if currently connected.
    • A religious marriage should involve whatever religious ceremony appropriate.
    • A legal marriage should only involve the signing of a piece of paper, with appropriate officials and lawyers as necessary.


    Edit: Actually, that might not be all that clear....Ah well, we'll see what develops.

    And as a side note, you are obviously not a Centrist...
    Last edited by The Mark; 05-02-10 at 06:30 PM.
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  9. #169
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    You've never encountered someone who's vote was conditional?

    When gay marriage is about rights and equality, I oppose it, because marriage per-se is not about rights and equality.

    When gay marriage is about the raising and socializing of children, I support it, because marriage per-se is about the raising and socializing of children.

    You keep asserting that gay marriage is about rights and equality, so it follows that I would argue against you as I oppose gay marriage on those grounds.

    You deny that marriage per-se is about children and family, that it's about "consenting adults", so you and I will probably argue against each other until the end of time even though we both support gays getting married.

    Funny isn't it
    that a nice piece of fantasy you just wrote there but certainly doesnt hold true to anybody that has read this whole thread, yes you are funny, i laugh at you very often
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    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Marriage is a sacred contract between a man and a woman. This must never change. This should be respected by the homosexuals, evidently, it is not...There is such a thing as going too far.
    A state approved union between two men or two women , however repugnant, disgusting is OK with me.
    Not all is peaches and cream, in our society, nor can it be.

    I am in the 21% minority here.
    Man & Woman?
    Says who? you? based on what
    same sex marriages have been around for over 1000 years so there would be no disrespect in reality only in your mind. Marriage also isnt that secret, reality also proves that
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