View Poll Results: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

Voters
430. You may not vote on this poll
  • No

    186 43.26%
  • Yes, explain

    244 56.74%
Page 158 of 192 FirstFirst ... 58108148156157158159160168 ... LastLast
Results 1,571 to 1,580 of 1915

Thread: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

  1. #1571
    Global Moderator
    The Hammer of Chaos
    Goshin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Dixie
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    44,157

    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Really? I recently recall an argument about a mother and father and their church choices. Also, there are the cases when a heterosexual couple uses a sperm donor or a surrogate mother or even just adopt, and later have complications concerning the parental rights pertaining to biological parenthood versus who is legally raising the child and/or been in the child's life the most. The issues you mentioned have come up with heterosexual couples also. However, I don't recall an issue (although, granted I could be wrong) where three people were all raising a child as their child, not even really informing or caring about who the child's actual biological parents are. (Think My Two Dad's situation) The three live together in love with each other and the child calls all three mom or dad (dependent only on their sex). In such a case, it would be a lot more complicated than two separate parties raising a child, especially since the child is most likely going to know why they have at least two of one parent.

    Okay, but you DO think that gov't has a right to restrict some people's access to legal marriage, as long as it is some group you have reservations about? That's what it is sounding like... you're for SSM but have reservations about polygamy as a viable legal form of marriage in the USA. That would be a form of denying marriage benefits to a minority based on your individual viewpoint that their form of marriage might be a problem of some kind... which isn't that different a viewpoint than many anti-SSM's view of gay marriage.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  2. #1572
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    05-17-17 @ 05:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,935

    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    actually the burden of proof lies with those who are attempting to change the laws.
    As I've said there is as much proof that homosexual marriage can benefit society as heterosexual marriage does, since the only difference is the genders of the people involved in the marriage. The only direct benefit that can't come is increasing the chances that a child born between two people in a relationship is raised by the biological mother and father. However, since I have already shown how not all the benefits to society have to apply or even legally can apply (in some cases) to all heterosexual marriages, then the ability to actually reproduce cannot be used against homosexuals. All the other benefits of marriage to society can come from at least a few homosexual couples. The benefits to society by allowing homosexuals' the ability to marry is no different than those from heterosexuals, so the pro-gm proof is already there. We have our proof.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  3. #1573
    Sporadic insanity normal.


    The Mark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 01:46 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    19,736

    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Okay, but you DO think that gov't has a right to restrict some people's access to legal marriage, as long as it is some group you have reservations about? That's what it is sounding like... you're for SSM but have reservations about polygamy as a viable legal form of marriage in the USA. That would be a form of denying marriage benefits to a minority based on your individual viewpoint that their form of marriage might be a problem of some kind... which isn't that different a viewpoint than many anti-SSM's view of gay marriage.
    Just to be clear, I think the government should restrict persons access to legal marriage.

    Not on the grounds of sexual preference, race, or the like, but on grounds designed to promote stable financial situations, good child-rearing environments, and so forth.

    If those grounds excluded some gay couples, I am fairly sure they would exclude a comparable number of hetero couples.

    I think they would also INclude some unions of more than two people.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  4. #1574
    Sage
    mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    DC Metro
    Last Seen
    11-13-16 @ 12:58 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    22,499

    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You have to prove that homosexual marriage is harming you or society in some way. You can't simply make an assertion that it is/does without proof. The pro-gm side can show how homosexual marriage can benefit society, so to counter, you would have to show that harm will be caused to society by homosexual marriage and that the harm would be less desirable than the benefits to society as a whole.
    again, the burden of proof lies with those that are trying to change the laws....I'm not trying to change the law.

  5. #1575
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    10-26-10 @ 06:34 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,978

    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Just to be clear, I think the government should restrict persons access to legal marriage.

    Not on the grounds of sexual preference, race, or the like, but on grounds designed to promote stable financial situations, good child-rearing environments, and so forth.

    If those grounds excluded some gay couples, I am fairly sure they would exclude a comparable number of hetero couples.

    I think they would also INclude some unions of more than two people.

    Say what?
    Which individual or organization in government would you trust to be the unbiased arbiter of who should and should not be allowed to get married?
    And do you realize how costly it would be to have a government entity charged with judging each individual potential marriage and deciding whether or not to allow it?
    Do you realize how many marriages take place in our country each and every day?
    Last edited by 1069; 06-16-10 at 10:44 PM.

  6. #1576
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Last Seen
    09-24-17 @ 04:38 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    29,261

    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Just to be clear, I think the government should restrict persons access to legal marriage.

    Not on the grounds of sexual preference, race, or the like, but on grounds designed to promote stable financial situations, good child-rearing environments, and so forth.

    If those grounds excluded some gay couples, I am fairly sure they would exclude a comparable number of hetero couples.

    I think they would also INclude some unions of more than two people.
    I wish that was true. But in the real world no one gives a ****.

  7. #1577
    Educator Alastor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Reality
    Last Seen
    06-08-14 @ 06:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    645

    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    And once you kick the door open to redefine marriage to accomodate gays, what makes you think you can shut it again before the polygamists, polyamorists, and who knows what else get their foot in?
    Well, if we can't justify restraining their freedom on the basis of societal good or other people's individual liberties, we can't keep that door closed.

    The reality is that right now our society would suffer greatly from legalization of polygamy.

    If that situation changes, so too will the results of the question itself.

    When and if polygamy is no longer a significant degradation of our society or someone else's individual rights, it shouldn't be prohibited.

    We're not remotely close to that today though. I think the argument can safely be made that it would cause a significant issue in our culture, and therefore - for right now at least (and maybe forever) - it should remain illegal.

    Quote Originally Posted by mac
    What happens when groups begin trying to redefine pedophilia? Is a 22 year old student sleeping with a willing 15 year old student pedophilia? There are a lot of variables in there that can be "redefined".
    Pedophilia infringes on other people's individual rights. It's also destructive for our society.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I still feel bad for those people who are truly polyamorous, however, since they don't seem to really be clamoring for polygamy to be legal anyway, it probably isn't a big deal.
    I also sympathize with people that harm no one else, but simply share a different world view than the mainstream of society.

    I think that this is one of many cases where as long as it's done somewhat beneath the pale, we tend to turn a blind eye to it. Adultery is another example. When was the last time you actually saw someone prosecuted for adultery?

    I think that usually, unless someone is causing a significant problem because of it, it gets ignored by our moral and legal system.

    That's probably not ideal, but it works okay for the most-part.

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Well, there you go....you don't think homosexuality infringes on anyone else's rights, while others do.
    Now this would be an interesting conversation.

    In what way does someone's private sexuality infringe on anyone else's rights?

  8. #1578
    Sage
    mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    DC Metro
    Last Seen
    11-13-16 @ 12:58 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    22,499

    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    As I've said there is as much proof that homosexual marriage can benefit society as heterosexual marriage does, since the only difference is the genders of the people involved in the marriage. The only direct benefit that can't come is increasing the chances that a child born between two people in a relationship is raised by the biological mother and father. However, since I have already shown how not all the benefits to society have to apply or even legally can apply (in some cases) to all heterosexual marriages, then the ability to actually reproduce cannot be used against homosexuals. All the other benefits of marriage to society can come from at least a few homosexual couples. The benefits to society by allowing homosexuals' the ability to marry is no different than those from heterosexuals, so the pro-gm proof is already there. We have our proof.
    You have proved it to yourselves, not to anyone else. There are other factors beyond impact to the individual affected family or household. Women's Suffrage has had both positive and negative impact on society though we all feel that it was the right thing to do. There have been negative impacts to the economy, to the environment and to the family structure in America directly resulting from the two worker household that can't be disregarded. None of this impact was ever considered when discussing women's rights in America and yet there they are. Now, before you get all fired up and call me a sexist pig, I only bring this up to highlight the chance of unforeseen impacts on society. I am in no way suggesting a reversal of women's rights.
    Last edited by mac; 06-16-10 at 10:50 PM.

  9. #1579
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    05-17-17 @ 05:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,935

    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Okay, but you DO think that gov't has a right to restrict some people's access to legal marriage, as long as it is some group you have reservations about? That's what it is sounding like... you're for SSM but have reservations about polygamy as a viable legal form of marriage in the USA. That would be a form of denying marriage benefits to a minority based on your individual viewpoint that their form of marriage might be a problem of some kind... which isn't that different a viewpoint than many anti-SSM's view of gay marriage.
    I can give arguements of actual complications and why it could be reasonable to assume that more than a few people might try to defraud the government when dealing with polygamy. I would not automatically be against it, but there is a reasonable, quantifiable purpose in weighing the benefits to the problems that would come with polygamy. It is easy to say that every marriage should automatically be allowed, but we must be realistic. Some restrictions are necessary to protect people and/or ensure that the government does not take on more than it should. Anti-SSM would need a similar argument as to why there would be more complications from a homosexual marriage than from a heterosexual one just due to the sexuality difference.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  10. #1580
    Sporadic insanity normal.


    The Mark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 01:46 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    19,736

    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    Say what?
    Which individual or organization in government would you trust to be the unbiased arbiter of who should and should not be allowed to get married?
    No one.

    Did you read my post?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    And do you realize how costly it would be to have a government entity charged with judging each individual potential marriage and deciding whether or not to allow it?
    As no one would be, it wouldn't be an issue.

    However, the entity charged with determining which party got the varied tax benefits depending on their specific legal union (however that was laid out) would probably be somewhat costly.

    But really, I was hoping it would include some reforms for the current system in such a change. A hope doomed to never be fulfilled, probably.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    Do you realize how many marriages take place in our country each and every day?
    No. But itís probably in the tens or hundreds of thousands.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •