View Poll Results: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

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    186 43.26%
  • Yes, explain

    244 56.74%
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Thread: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

  1. #1531
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    It's the law of Americans put in place by Americans. Society sets its own laws. It's not an "illegal law"
    That is ridiculous. Americans can't approve a law that says all people of chinese ancestry lose their property to the government, for it is against the Constitution. It is discrimination, just as the laws that prohibit gay marriage.
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    I'm not missing the point, homosexuality is a choice and doesn't deserve extra rights any more so than choosing any other unnatural or unsavory behavior does. My opposition has nothing to do with religion, and even if it did, religious beliefs are just as valid a reason to be for or against something as anything else is. The fact of the matter is, the majority of Americans are against it. Why they are against it is their own business. Lastly, a persons sexual preference is as well protected against discrimination as a persons religious preference is.
    Here we go... prove that homosexuality is a choice. It's that or you aint got nothin.
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  3. #1533
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    This is the fundamental flaw of the liberal. Having a differing opinion means I am ignorant, correct? There have been studies that indicate that homosexuality may be a choice, and there have been studies that say it is a choice. There have been no conclusive studies that prove homosexuality is not a choice. At present, you are no more informed about that issue than is anyone else.
    There are no conclusive studies either way... THAT is the point. Guess you just shot down the above post's statement that it is a choice, eh?
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  4. #1534
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    A question regarding the recent discussion: How does whether or not being gay is a choice have anything to do with legalizing gay marriage?
    If being gay were a choice, then homosexuals could simply choose not to be gay and get married normally. Honestly, if it were a choice, nobody would choose it.

  5. #1535
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
    Genetics also determines my preference in women that I find to be sexually attractive. Some women just don't do it for me. Some do. That's a pretty powerful influence.

    Genetics also determines whether or not I can tolerate the taste of certain foods. Just because I'm not allergic to them doesn't mean I don't think they're disgusting. Oysters are a good example for me personally. If I had to eat those every day, I'd probably come pretty close to starving.

    On the contrary, I LOVE BBQ ribs. If I smell them I go nuts and pretty much will do whatever I can to get some within the realm of reason.

    Genetics determines all sorts of things, including who I am compatible with for feelings of love and in some cases hate.


    In some cases it's a simple and mundane preference - Pepsi versus Coke. In other cases however, the genetics that we each carry can be pretty damned compelling.
    Well, personally, I would probably consider those things as examples of previous experience influencing your reactions, not genetics so much.

    But still, genetics probably play a role.

    As I see it, the real question that would need a conclusive answer for genetics to have any bearing in the way you describe is: “Do genetic traits make a person homosexual despite any decisions they try to make, do they simply make it easier to make those decisions, or do they have no effect whatsoever?”

    If the last, then there is obviously no issue with the bible/church bit, they can still claim it is a sin and such without any evidence to the contrary.

    If the second, their position would be shaken but not badly damaged. It could be argued both ways. Either that the choice to take the easier route is a sin (and that would fit well with much religious thought), or that the genetic predisposition leaning towards homosexuality is proof god designed us this way, so any religious claims of sin must be false.

    If the first, then obviously homosexuality cannot be a sin…Well, unless you start arguing that evil men/forces have intentionally contaminated the genetic code of man to include homosexuality, or some crazy **** of the like…I bet you someone would go that route.

    Personally, I think it is most likely the second, or a combination of the first and second (as in some have the choice made by genetics, and some make the choice themselves).
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  6. #1536
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Panache View Post
    Where do you get the idea that a gay gene would somehow undermine the bible? Does the bible say somewhere that it isn't a genetic trait?
    Yeah, it does. If homosexuality is a sin, but humans are inherently created with a tendency towards homosexuality, that certainly raises a lot of logic as well as moral questions the church then has to deal with.

    Yeah, it pretty much does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Panache View Post
    Okaaaay... so you are saying that lifestyle choices don't exist?
    Of course lifestyle choices exist. Some are very compelling, some aren't. I prefer the temperature to be at around 72 degrees. My girlfriend prefers it at around 68. We compromise at 70.

    I also have a very strong preference for women. I find women to be sexually attractive, and it would severely impede my happiness and productivity if I was no longer allowed to engage them.

    Likewise, I find the notion of a romantic relationship with a male repugnant. Being forced to engage in one (or at least pretend) in order to get the same rights as other citizens would also negatively impact my happiness, my freedom, my sense of self, my positive influence on the rest of society, and my productivity.

    Some preferences are minor and easy to work around. Some however, are not.

    If it's a choice, how would you feel if homosexuality suddenly became the law and heterosexuality were outlawed?

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    I don't want it legally defined as marriage. Just have the state issue partnership licenses and end it at that.
    Then ALL marriages should just be partnership licenses, which I'm not necessarily opposed to; I think any "marriage" is equally valid.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
    Yeah, it does. If homosexuality is a sin, but humans are inherently created with a tendency towards homosexuality, that certainly raises a lot of logic as well as moral questions the church then has to deal with.

    Yeah, it pretty much does.



    Of course lifestyle choices exist. Some are very compelling, some aren't. I prefer the temperature to be at around 72 degrees. My girlfriend prefers it at around 68. We compromise at 70.

    I also have a very strong preference for women. I find women to be sexually attractive, and it would severely impede my happiness and productivity if I was no longer allowed to engage them.

    Likewise, I find the notion of a romantic relationship with a male repugnant. Being forced to engage in one (or at least pretend) in order to get the same rights as other citizens would also negatively impact my happiness, my freedom, my sense of self, my positive influence on the rest of society, and my productivity.

    Some preferences are minor and easy to work around. Some however, are not.

    If it's a choice, how would you feel if homosexuality suddenly became the law and heterosexuality were outlawed?
    What you said about homosexuality being the law makes literally no sense, you will never be forced to have a relationship with a male.

  9. #1539
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    That is ridiculous. Americans can't approve a law that says all people of chinese ancestry lose their property to the government, for it is against the Constitution. It is discrimination, just as the laws that prohibit gay marriage.
    That would only be true if homosexuals had no more choice over their sexual preference than Chinese do over their ancestry.

  10. #1540
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    I agree with most of what you said here. So why don't homosexuals (most of which are not religious) accept civil contract rather than insist that a religious rite (marriage) be applied to them?
    First of all, some homosexuals are religious. You are assuming that they are not just because many religions consider homosexuality a sin. Some, however, do not. And I'm pretty sure that any church or holy person willing to preside over a wedding ceremony for homosexuals would not consider it a sin either.

    Second, there are plenty of heterosexual couples, including me and my husband, that did not get married under a specific religion, but we are still considered married.

    Last, why in the heck should we spend all that money, as in our government, to change or make so much new paperwork and set of rules for civil unions, if they are the exact same thing as marriages? It is a waste of money. We already have a word to cover civil unions, it is called marriage.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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