View Poll Results: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

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    186 43.26%
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Thread: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

  1. #1461
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Gender is not being discriminated against. Homosexual marriage is illegal regardless of gender of the participants.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Gender is not being discriminated against. Homosexual marriage is illegal regardless of gender of the participants.
    The discrimination is in the sexuality of the couple. Most evidence points to a person's sexuality being beyond a conscience choice. Not that it really should matter, because as I've stated before, we protect people from religious discrimination.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The discrimination is in the sexuality of the couple. Most evidence points to a person's sexuality being beyond a conscience choice. Not that it really should matter, because as I've stated before, we protect people from religious discrimination.
    i was answering an earlier post stating that the opposition to gay marriage was gender bias. It's not. It is not, however, just the religious who are against gay marriage and that means it's not religious discrimination either. The majority of American society is opposed to gay marriage as evidenced by the overwhealming failure of legislation allowing gay marriage in many states.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    i was answering an earlier post stating that the opposition to gay marriage was gender bias. It's not. It is not, however, just the religious who are against gay marriage and that means it's not religious discrimination either. The majority of American society is opposed to gay marriage as evidenced by the overwhealming failure of legislation allowing gay marriage in many states.
    I think you're missing the point. The main argument against homosexuality is that it is not a genetic trait or that it is a choice, and therefore, it cannot be considered to have the same discrimination protection as race. This is the big argument when anyone on my side brings up interracial marriage. And I pointed out that the logic is wrong when saying that only things that aren't a person's choice are protected against discrimination. A person's religion is protected against discriminination and it is definitely a choice.

    Also, most of the opposition is in fact due to religion. There are a lot of religious people in this country. However, most polls show that there is not a large gap in the difference of those who support gay marriage and those who don't, especially if you were to factor in those willing to give them the same rights, while calling it something else. The general gap between pro-gm and anti-gm is within 10%, or about 54% against, 46% for, and about a 2% don't care/don't know/undecided. The support for gay marriage is actually growing.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #1465
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    I've more or less followed this thread from the beginning, and...

    It seems the following is the case:

    Only a few people directly oppose gay marriage being allowed, at least outside those who reject it on religious grounds.
    Not to dismiss the opinions of those religious views, but as such a stance cannot be reasoned against, there's not much point in trying

    What a good portion of people seem to have disagreements about is the whole framework of marriage as it currently stands, what changes they would prefer, and how that all fits into the gay marriage discussion.

    This, I think is where much of the actual discussion has taken place so far.

    So, I thought it might be interesting to request that people post their ideas as to how the whole thing fits together in their mind.
    Education.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Gender is not being discriminated against. Homosexual marriage is illegal regardless of gender of the participants.
    Homosexual marriage is not illegal what is illegal in some states is for the state to recognize it. I wonder what the penalty is if such a state would recognize a homosexual marriage?

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    These have been argued already, and overlooked.
    I believe that's because all of the attention on this issue is focused in the wrong places. Everyone fixates on the issue of "equal rights" or "sinful behavior" and ignores arguments that do not address one or the other. It seems as though noone is willing to consider the effects of either policy.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Civil marriage (which is what we are discussing), is a social contract between two people that the government endorses for its own benefits.
    I wouldn't be so quick to separate civil marriage from religious marriage. In the vast majority of cases the two coincide-- and when they do not it is almost exclusively because either the Church or the State is unwilling to recognize the marriage. They both refer to the same institution for the same purposes, and people who have a strong opinion about either civil marriage or religious marriage typically believe that they should follow the same rules. Those who support gay civil marriage more frequently than not belong to churches that allow gay religious marriage, and people who oppose gay civil marriage typically belong to churches that prohibit gay religious marriages. In both cases, their views on civil marriage are, at least in part, driven by their views on religious marriage.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    From the way that the government treats heterosexual marriages, it is obvious that it is not necessary that all or even most need to apply to all marriages. Some of these same benefits could be gained from having homosexual marriages.
    Indeed. I'd argue that all of these benefits, in fact, could be gained from homosexual marriages, hence my support for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Not evey heterosexual couple is even able by law to have children, so the argument that heterosexual marriage's main purpose is procreation is completely down the toilet. There are at least a couple of states where first cousins can marry only if at least one of them is medically or naturally sterile.
    That's a silly restriction; the risk of birth defects between first cousins is barely higher than between strangers, and far smaller than the risk of birth defects in women over 40. The reason not to allow first cousins to marry-- and I am adamantly opposed to it-- is that one of marriage's primary functions is creating natural alliances between families. How can that occur if only one family is involved in a marriage?

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Gender is not being discriminated against. Homosexual marriage is illegal regardless of gender of the participants.
    It might be illegal, but just as women and blacks used to be discriminated against, it isn't right and will eventually be made legal since it is an illegal law.
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The discrimination is in the sexuality of the couple. Most evidence points to a person's sexuality being beyond a conscience choice. Not that it really should matter, because as I've stated before, we protect people from religious discrimination.
    That's simply not true. Some studies indicate that homosexuality may not be a concscious choice. There has been no physiological evidence to support that.

    As I have stated before, it is not only the religious who oppose it.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    It might be illegal, but just as women and blacks used to be discriminated against, it isn't right and will eventually be made legal since it is an illegal law.
    It's the law of Americans put in place by Americans. Society sets its own laws. It's not an "illegal law"

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