View Poll Results: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

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    186 43.26%
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    244 56.74%
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Thread: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

  1. #1281
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
    It wasn't an attempt at sarcasm, nor was it an attempt to bitch.

    Thanks for getting on your high horse and presuming the worst though. Very Christian of you (now that is sarcasm).
    Lets see...

    So God likes it if we stone our wives and hang our brothers? - Alastor

    That is the opening of the reply you gave when I answered your question honestly.

    So no high horse, just common sense.

    You don't even know what a Christian is supposed to be, let alone let alone what they need to do. Stick to things you know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
    I wasn't aware of the other mentions of homosexuality in the Bible. An honest, intelligent answer (as someone else provided since you failed to do so) would have been far more productive.

    Perhaps you're right that it's best we part ways here.

    God be with you - you might need him.
    You showed you did not know what you were talking about, and you just wanted to bash the Christianity. Otherwise what purpose did your opening comment serve?

    I also did not need to comment on the NT as my comment came AFTER Digsbi posted quotes from the NT.

    Intilectual dishonesty is not a good thing.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 06-14-10 at 11:44 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  2. #1282
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post

    You don't even know w what a Christian is supposed to be, let alone let alone what they need to do.
    Christians fight about that all the time. For example some think homosexuality is a sin and some don't think it is.

  3. #1283
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    But the very same could be said about you when you put faith in the Bible. You put faith in the men who wrote the Bible to not have changed or manipulated what is written in it for their own gain.
    I think I mentioned before my faith is not blind. I do not accept God just because someone said so.
    No the same cannot be said.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    God did not actually write the Bible himself. And since God gave free will, then He really couldn't completely prevent someone or a group of someone's from making changes, leaving out parts, or manipulating the words of the Bible so that it is their beliefs that come through instead of what He would like written.
    The Bible is 66+ different books by many different authors places and times. It is not one giant book per-say. The chances of that many people getting together in a plot to fool mankind is about the same odds of one million monkeys on type writers banging out Shakespeare.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 06-14-10 at 11:41 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  4. #1284
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Christians fight about that all the time. For example some think homosexuality is a sin and some don't think it is.
    Because we have a vested interest in being better Christians. He had a vested interest in bashing us.

    That my friend is the difference.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 06-14-10 at 11:43 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  5. #1285
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I think I mentioned before my faith is not blind. I do not accept God just because someone said so.
    No the same cannot be said.



    The Bible is 66+ different books by many different authors places and times. It is not one giant book per-say. The chances of that many people getting together in a plot to fool mankind is about the same odds of one million monkeys on type writers banging out Shakespeare.
    The times are around the same general time for many of the books, especially those of the NT. And, they were brought into being the Bible by a group of people, at one particular time. And then changed by a person or group of people a few different times later. The first could mean people who were thinking along the same lines might all believe that God would condemn homosexuality. The second could mean that what got omitted could be important, could have more clarity than believed, could have been done on purpose for whatever reasons. You only know about the Bible what you are told.

    Along with that, it has been argued (although I really don't know if it was you) that the NT allowed that some of the OT rules could now be ignored, such as dietary restrictions. That tells me, that either God changed his mind on the dietary rules or it has just been shown that at least part of someone personal beliefs, and not the actual rules of God, came through in writing at least the OT. If it is God changed his mind, then there is really no way to know that God cannot change his mind again and showing it through scientific research (although this is a stretch). If it is someone's own beliefs as to what God might find as a sin coming through, then who is to say that it couldn't happen in the NT as well. It is even possible that it could happen in a couple of places, by a couple of people. There are relatively very few passages that actually condemn homosexual acts in the Bible, even if there are a few more than what Goshin put up, and accounting for those inappropriate references to Sodom. It is possible that those passages were simply someone's own bias against homosexuality coming through as being God's condemnation of it. We believe now that God doesn't really approve of slavery, yet it was not truly condemned then because it was considered okay during that time.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  6. #1286
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Lets see...

    So God likes it if we stone our wives and hang our brothers? - Alastor

    That is the opening of the reply you gave when I answered your question honestly.
    Yes.

    Because you're the one who said that Leviticus was used as a measure of what God wanted.

    Since Leviticus also includes stoning people, I thought it was a fair question. I still do.

    If Leviticus is a measure of what God wants (you words, not mine), then he also likes it when we stone people.

    You said it, not me.

    Don't take it out on me.



    So no high horse, just common sense.
    If only you bothered to include character, integrity and logic as part of "common sense" the way the rest of us do.


    You don't even know what a Christian is supposed to be, let alone let alone what they need to do. Stick to things you know.
    That's why I asked the question.

    You provided the answer. If you're unhappy with the answer you provided, feel free to take that up with the source of the answer - if you can find the character to take responsibility for your own statements, instead of blaming others.

  7. #1287
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The times are around the same general time for many of the books, especially those of the NT. And, they were brought into being the Bible by a group of people, at one particular time. And then changed by a person or group of people a few different times later. The first could mean people who were thinking along the same lines might all believe that God would condemn homosexuality. The second could mean that what got omitted could be important, could have more clarity than believed, could have been done on purpose for whatever reasons. You only know about the Bible what you are told.
    That is a boat load of "if's" and to much is just negative specualtion at best.

    I am not dismissing your argument, but again the odds are so slim.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Along with that, it has been argued (although I really don't know if it was you) that the NT allowed that some of the OT rules could now be ignored, such as dietary restrictions. That tells me, that either God changed his mind on the dietary rules or it has just been shown that at least part of someone personal beliefs, and not the actual rules of God, came through in writing at least the OT. If it is God changed his mind, then there is really no way to know that God cannot change his mind again and showing it through scientific research (although this is a stretch). If it is someone's own beliefs as to what God might find as a sin coming through, then who is to say that it couldn't happen in the NT as well. It is even possible that it could happen in a couple of places, by a couple of people. There are relatively very few passages that actually condemn homosexual acts in the Bible, even if there are a few more than what Goshin put up, and accounting for those inappropriate references to Sodom. It is possible that those passages were simply someone's own bias against homosexuality coming through as being God's condemnation of it. We believe now that God doesn't really approve of slavery, yet it was not truly condemned then because it was considered okay during that time.
    You are confusing two different covenants.

    The first covenant was between God and the Israelites. Those rules etc were given to them, not the rest of mankind. They were for their protection and safety.

    The second covenant was between God and all people. The rules did not change, but they never did apply to gentiles at all even back then. Noahchides were not even bound by but a few of the commandments or the 9 Noahchide laws written around 2318 BC.

    Something not truly being “condemned” is not condoning it. Also it was Roman law. Jesus and Paul etc never went against Roman law, period. They were concerned with spiritual salvation, not mans law as God put the Romans in power.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 06-14-10 at 12:27 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  8. #1288
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
    Yes.

    Because you're the one who said that Leviticus was used as a measure of what God wanted.

    Since Leviticus also includes stoning people, I thought it was a fair question. I still do.

    If Leviticus is a measure of what God wants (you words, not mine), then he also likes it when we stone people.

    You said it, not me.

    Don't take it out on me.
    I said it was a reference tool, not a measuring stick. You then went into extreme mode.

    Not taking anything out on you, just stating facts in evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
    If only you bothered to include character, integrity and logic as part of "common sense" the way the rest of us do.
    I rest my case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
    That's why I asked the question.
    No. You asked the question with one purpose in mind. You know this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
    You provided the answer. If you're unhappy with the answer you provided, feel free to take that up with the source of the answer - if you can find the character to take responsibility for your own statements, instead of blaming others.
    This has nothing to do with my answer which was fine. This has to do with your attitude towards all Christians based on the fact we are Christians.

    That's it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  9. #1289
    Educator Alastor's Avatar
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    This has nothing to do with my answer which was fine. This has to do with your attitude towards all Christians based on the fact we are Christians.

    That's it.
    I never said a word about Christians. All I did is ask a question. Whatever phantoms you read into that is your business.

    Guilty conscience?

  10. #1290
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    That is a boat load of "if's" and to much is just negative specualtion at best.

    I am not dismissing your argument, but again the odds are so slim.



    You are confusing two different covenants.

    The first covenant was between God and the Israelites. Those rules etc were given to them, not the rest of mankind. They were for their protection and safety.

    The second covenant was between God and all people. The rules did not change, but they never did apply to gentiles at all even back then. Noahchides were not even bound by but a few of the commandments or the 9 Noahchide laws written around 2318 BC.

    Something not truly being “condemned” is not condoning it. Also it was Roman law. Jesus and Paul etc never went against Roman law, period. They were concerned with spiritual salvation, not mans law as God put the Romans in power.
    And you are claiming to not be blinded by your faith, yet you seem to completely accept that what men decided should be put into the Bible (the books of the apostles and those close to them were essentially condensed into the Bible using 4 criteria: 1) Was the author an apostle or have a close connection with an apostle? 2) Is the book being accepted by the body of Christ at large? 3) Did the book contain consistency of doctrine and orthodox teaching? 4) Did the book bear evidence of high moral and spiritual values that would reflect a work of the Holy Spirit?), without accepting that they could be wrong.

    As I've pointed out, there are so relatively few passages that actually condemn homosexuality. And those are in the same 2 or 3 books. There really is no consensus of belief that God himself believed homosexuality to be a sin, not as evidenced by the Bible. It is much easier to believe that perhaps that particular "sin" really was a popular personal bias held at the time, that got it's consensus not from the writings of the apostles but rather from the group of men who decided the makeup of the Bible. Those men found a couple of passages that agreed with their own bias, and obscure references, such as Sodom, to make them believe that God felt that homosexuality was wrong.

    It may be interesting to learn whether or not there were other things that the original collectors for the Bible decided to omit from the Bible and the reasons why. That could help to better inform us as to whether their own personal biases did influence what was put into the Bible.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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