View Poll Results: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

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    186 43.26%
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    244 56.74%
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Thread: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

  1. #1271
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    You're assuming I want to view homosexuality as a sin. Being the wet blanket buzz-killington that insists that it is so is no fun, let me tell you. If I thought there was a honest and legitimate way to explain it away I'd be glad to change my views. Unfortunately the convoluted crap that has been presented so far doesn't even come close to qualifying.
    That's not completely true, Goshen. In a discussion that you and I had on this issue, I asked you what it would take to convince you to be pro-GM. You said, something like, pretty much nothing. Your position is based on your religion and your morals. I think in the past, you've been pretty clear on this, and have recognized that this trumps any information that is provided. See, though I am very pro-GM and have presented a massive amount of data and information on this issue here at DP, I can respect your position. You don't try to prove that homosexuality is "unnatural" or "disgusting" or that homosexuals are pedophiles or anything. I'd like to demonstrate that your position is informationally completely flawed, but, ultimately, for you what it comes down to is faith. I don't see it as discriminatory because you agreed with my position that the word "marriage" should be removed from government altogether. That all "pairings" be they gay or straight should be called "civil unions" and the word "marriage" should be relegated to religion only. I think what folks on both sides fail to see is that it is possible to have faith and reason at the same time.

    See, I suppose I see it from both sides: I am a very religious person who is also very pro-GM. It may seem like a contradiction, but I separate it out. This is one of the reasons that I have "undisclosed" next to my lean. I have some positions on things that would seem completely contradictory, but really are not.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  2. #1272
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    That's not completely true, Goshen. In a discussion that you and I had on this issue, I asked you what it would take to convince you to be pro-GM. You said, something like, pretty much nothing. Your position is based on your religion and your morals. I think in the past, you've been pretty clear on this, and have recognized that this trumps any information that is provided. See, though I am very pro-GM and have presented a massive amount of data and information on this issue here at DP, I can respect your position. You don't try to prove that homosexuality is "unnatural" or "disgusting" or that homosexuals are pedophiles or anything. I'd like to demonstrate that your position is informationally completely flawed, but, ultimately, for you what it comes down to is faith. I don't see it as discriminatory because you agreed with my position that the word "marriage" should be removed from government altogether. That all "pairings" be they gay or straight should be called "civil unions" and the word "marriage" should be relegated to religion only. I think what folks on both sides fail to see is that it is possible to have faith and reason at the same time.

    See, I suppose I see it from both sides: I am a very religious person who is also very pro-GM. It may seem like a contradiction, but I separate it out. This is one of the reasons that I have "undisclosed" next to my lean. I have some positions on things that would seem completely contradictory, but really are not.
    Well CC the only way my position would change is if a true profit of God, or God came down and said it was OK. Otherwise it's not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  3. #1273
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Well CC the only way my position would change is if a true profit of God, or God came down and said it was OK. Otherwise it's not.
    That's similar to what Goshen said, in a way. I can respect that based on the fact that, as far as I know, your position is the same as his: civil unions for everyone, marriage for religion and that your position is based on faith. Now, though I am very religious, I look at the bible contextually in relation to the time. I base my belief system on the traditional Progressive/Reform Jewish position that what is in the Torah is a starting point and that each person's faith is individual, and it is up to that person to interpret the nuances of scripture. Also, in Progressive/Reform Judaism, law it constantly reinterpreted based on current social and technological issues. Because of this, God does not have to tell me that homosexuality is OK. He already has through all of the studies that have been researched. That's just my faith, though.

    Kinda reminds me of a story/parable.

    A man becomes very ill. He is very religious and tells his wife that God will save him. So he prays. His wife, who is not as religious, has a doctor come to the house. The doctor says, "I can give you medicine that will help you." The man says, "no, I don't need the medicine, God will save me." The man prays, but he worsens. His wife has the doctor come again. The doctor again says, "I can give you medicine that will help you." The man says, "no, I don't need the medicine, God will save me." Again, he prays, but again he worsens. His wife sends for the doctor one more time. When he sees the man has deteriorated further, he says, "you could die from this. I can give you medicine to help you." Again, the man says, "no, God will save me. I don't need the medicine." The doctor leaves once again. The man prays. He dies. When he gets to heaven, he sees God and says to him, "Lord, why oh why didn't you answer my prayers and save my life?" God looks at him and says, "What are you talking about? I sent a doctor with medicine to your house 3 times."

    Neat story. Kinda describes my beliefs real well.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  4. #1274
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    A man becomes very ill. He is very religious and tells his wife that God will save him. So he prays. His wife, who is not as religious, has a doctor come to the house. The doctor says, "I can give you medicine that will help you." The man says, "no, I don't need the medicine, God will save me." The man prays, but he worsens. His wife has the doctor come again. The doctor again says, "I can give you medicine that will help you." The man says, "no, I don't need the medicine, God will save me." Again, he prays, but again he worsens. His wife sends for the doctor one more time. When he sees the man has deteriorated further, he says, "you could die from this. I can give you medicine to help you." Again, the man says, "no, God will save me. I don't need the medicine." The doctor leaves once again. The man prays. He dies. When he gets to heaven, he sees God and says to him, "Lord, why oh why didn't you answer my prayers and save my life?" God looks at him and says, "What are you talking about? I sent a doctor with medicine to your house 3 times."

    Neat story. Kinda describes my beliefs real well.
    I've heard a story a little similar, only the guy was on his roof during a flood. He prayed to God to save him. He saw a row boat, a speed boat, and a helicopter that all offered to save him. He turned each away, saying God would save him. He dies, the ending is the same as yours. It's been one of my favorite stories too.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #1275
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I've heard a story a little similar, only the guy was on his roof during a flood. He prayed to God to save him. He saw a row boat, a speed boat, and a helicopter that all offered to save him. He turned each away, saying God would save him. He dies, the ending is the same as yours. It's been one of my favorite stories too.
    I couldn't remember the exact story... yours is the correct version, so I altered it and wrote my own. The message is the same.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  6. #1276
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    That's similar to what Goshen said, in a way. I can respect that based on the fact that, as far as I know, your position is the same as his: civil unions for everyone, marriage for religion and that your position is based on faith. Now, though I am very religious, I look at the bible contextually in relation to the time. I base my belief system on the traditional Progressive/Reform Jewish position that what is in the Torah is a starting point and that each person's faith is individual, and it is up to that person to interpret the nuances of scripture. Also, in Progressive/Reform Judaism, law it constantly reinterpreted based on current social and technological issues. Because of this, God does not have to tell me that homosexuality is OK. He already has through all of the studies that have been researched. That's just my faith, though.

    Kinda reminds me of a story/parable.

    A man becomes very ill. He is very religious and tells his wife that God will save him. So he prays. His wife, who is not as religious, has a doctor come to the house. The doctor says, "I can give you medicine that will help you." The man says, "no, I don't need the medicine, God will save me." The man prays, but he worsens. His wife has the doctor come again. The doctor again says, "I can give you medicine that will help you." The man says, "no, I don't need the medicine, God will save me." Again, he prays, but again he worsens. His wife sends for the doctor one more time. When he sees the man has deteriorated further, he says, "you could die from this. I can give you medicine to help you." Again, the man says, "no, God will save me. I don't need the medicine." The doctor leaves once again. The man prays. He dies. When he gets to heaven, he sees God and says to him, "Lord, why oh why didn't you answer my prayers and save my life?" God looks at him and says, "What are you talking about? I sent a doctor with medicine to your house 3 times."

    Neat story. Kinda describes my beliefs real well.
    I see. In my story I would have taken the medicine as well. I don't understand what this has to do with your position. I understand the faith, but again not the position?

    I mean my faith is not blind, but I do follow the word as written. This does not mean we would turn away help, medicine etc because we expect God to help us? He works through others as well as through prayer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  7. #1277
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I see. In my story I would have taken the medicine as well. I don't understand what this has to do with your position. I understand the faith, but again not the position?

    I mean my faith is not blind, but I do follow the word as written. This does not mean we would turn away help, medicine etc because we expect God to help us? He works through others as well as through prayer.
    If He works through others, then why wouldn't He work through the researchers that have demonstrated that gays do as well rearing children as straights? Or the researchers that have shown that being gay is no more abnormal than being straight? See? It's not faith or religion in general that's the issue, which is my point. It is one's individual faith.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  8. #1278
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    If He works through others, then why wouldn't He work through the researchers that have demonstrated that gays do as well rearing children as straights? Or the researchers that have shown that being gay is no more abnormal than being straight? See? It's not faith or religion in general that's the issue, which is my point. It is one's individual faith.
    I see your point, but it seems you are putting faith in man, rather than God's law. No argument, just an observation and opinion.

    Putting faith in men is fine when it is not in direct violation with God's law. Science is not at odds with scripture, but this does not mean science takes precedent over biblical moral precedent for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  9. #1279
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I see your point, but it seems you are putting faith in man, rather than God's law. No argument, just an observation and opinion.

    Putting faith in men is fine when it is not in direct violation with God's law. Science is not at odds with scripture, but this does not mean science takes precedent over biblical moral precedent for me.
    But the very same could be said about you when you put faith in the Bible. You put faith in the men who wrote the Bible to not have changed or manipulated what is written in it for their own gain. God did not actually write the Bible himself. And since God gave free will, then He really couldn't completely prevent someone or a group of someone's from making changes, leaving out parts, or manipulating the words of the Bible so that it is their beliefs that come through instead of what He would like written.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  10. #1280
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Your attempt at sarcasm to my honest answering of your question is duly noted.

    Since you have chosen to "bitch" and be "sarcastic" rather than add anything to the debate, I am done with you.

    Have a good one.

    God Bless

    It wasn't an attempt at sarcasm, nor was it an attempt to bitch.

    Thanks for getting on your high horse and presuming the worst though. Very Christian of you (now that is sarcasm).

    I wasn't aware of the other mentions of homosexuality in the Bible. An honest, intelligent answer (as someone else provided since you failed to do so) would have been far more productive.

    Perhaps you're right that it's best we part ways here.

    God be with you - you might need him.

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