View Poll Results: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

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    186 43.26%
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Thread: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

  1. #1241
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    If you are considering stories from the Bible, then you must consider the thinking of the people of that time. Interpreting it with just the thinking of modern times is just not being honest. The way the people back then thought is actually more important in interpreting the Bible then the way we think now.

    Miss, that is exactly what I do. I do indeed consider cultural relevance, and interpret carefully based on the context of WHO is speaking, WHOM they are speaking to, WHAT they are talking about, and WHEN/WHERE this is placed so as to know the proper interpretation. For instance, I know that the requirements of a Levite priest are not incumbent on ordinary believers. Some practices or promises were given for a specific people in a specific period of time.

    Attempting to explain that NT scripture does not mean what it plainly says is another matter. I've explained using quoted posts what my research into ancient homosexual practices revealed: that is was NOT all about prostitution and temple-boys, but that practices more closely resembling modern homosexual practices were indeed part of Greek culture during relevant periods of history.

    The Greeks used the term Pederaesty to refer to most of the practices you're talking about, but the NT uses the term arsenkoites. If it referred only to pederasty, then why didn't it say pederasty instead? Instead a term that would likely be understood to more generally refer to homosexuality was used. The most straightforward interpretation is that the scriptures I refereced are condemning homosexuality generally, rather than certain specific ancient practices.... because the authors knew about those ancient practices, and if they meant only those then they would have been more specific.

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  2. #1242
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by O_Guru View Post
    All this bible stuff is fine and dandy, it's sorta interesting to hear people interpret their religions/books and what they think it means. I just can't help to think one thing though, it doesn't matter! It has it has no impact on the OP and topic at hand really, it's a sub-disccussion. Why? because even if the bible was against it or if it was all for it, that has no impact on the law and why it is still discrimination to deny them equal rights.
    I was asked to explain myself. I did. I was told my explanation was wrong, so I explained further why I held my interpretation.

    The bible can be irrelevant to you, but it isn't to me.

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  3. #1243
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    More wiggling. Some of you just don't want to accept that the Bible means what it says, becasue you don't like what it says, and you're trying to justify it with all kinds of around-the-block convolutions.

    1Cr 6:9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,


    Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
    The bolded phrase is in the original Greek the word arsenokoites, which Thayer's lexicon translates as one who lies with a male as with a female, sodomite, homosexual
    Not really wiggling, just investigating, and having a differing point of view. Like a different translation of the word arsenokoitai.

    The word "arsenokoitai" (sometimes translated "abusers of themselves with mankind") literally means male-bed. "Bed" is a euphemism for copulating. This word is extremely rare in Greek. Paul was apparently the first author to use this word. The word taken literally (male-copulator) is very ambiguous. Take, for example, the word "lady-killer." Does it mean "a lady who kills" or "someone who kills ladies"? In our language it means the latter, but even then it is not clear because we do not mean that someone literally kills ladies but that their charm "kills" them. So taking the word "arsenokoitai" or "male-copulator," does it mean "a male who copulates men"; does it mean "a man who copulates with women"; does it mean "a man who is copulated?"

    The Bible does not clarify. These are the only two passages in the whole Bible where this word is used... Apparently there is no known contemporaneous literature in which this word is used. However, relatively close to the time Paul wrote it was used to refer to a male copulator connected with temple prostitution. It probably had this meaning until the late fourth century after which it came to mean a lot of different things, including homosexual activity.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Ironically enough, I understand the cheese get's it's color from being emulsed in - *drum roll* - wine.

    I quote: "This cheese gets its distinctive purple hue from a Cabernet emulsion, which also creates a taste unlike anything you’ve tried before."
    Info Link: Just scroll down a bit.
    That looks pretty tasty, I'd like to try it some time.

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  5. #1245
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Not really wiggling, just investigating, and having a differing point of view. Like a different translation of the word arsenokoitai.
    But let’s take a look at how this word “arsonokoite” was coined by Paul. Let’s look at Leviticus 20:13:

    Leviticus 20:13 (NASB – English Translation)
    “If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.”

    Leviticus 20:13 (NASB – Greek Translation)
    “kai ov an koimhqh meta arsenov koithn gunaikov bdelugma epoihsan amfoteroi qanatousqwsan enoxoi eisin”

    Notice the words “arsenov koithn” (roughly translated as “male bed”). Paul simply went back to the Levitical prohibitions and took the wording from there to coin a word of his own (something he did repeatedly).

    The similarities in language would not have gone unnoticed by the Jews in Paul’s day just as it does not go unnoticed today.

    Paul’s meaning was clear.

    The interpretation of arsenokoites as "homosexual" has been standard for around 2000 years. If you can show that the 1st Century church did not interpret it as such, please post proof based on writings from the first century AD.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  6. #1246
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Ironically enough, I understand the cheese get's it's color from being emulsed in - *drum roll* - wine.

    I quote: "This cheese gets its distinctive purple hue from a Cabernet emulsion, which also creates a taste unlike anything you’ve tried before."
    Info Link: Just scroll down a bit.
    Nice!
    Not really a cheese person besides the basics myself but now just because im going to give this cheese a whirl if I can find it, thanks

    and that is nice irony
    PURE STUPIDITY 1.) Glenn Beck doesnt lie. 2.) Obama is Jesus like 3.) Sara Palin is so smart & shes a great speaker. 4.) Obama does just about everything perfect. 5.) Fox doesn' t lean right 6.) Pro-Choice is no different than Pro-Slavery 7.) MSNBC doesn't lean left. 8.) What TSA does is no different than sexual assault & child porn.

  7. #1247
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Miss, that is exactly what I do. I do indeed consider cultural relevance, and interpret carefully based on the context of WHO is speaking, WHOM they are speaking to, WHAT they are talking about, and WHEN/WHERE this is placed so as to know the proper interpretation. For instance, I know that the requirements of a Levite priest are not incumbent on ordinary believers. Some practices or promises were given for a specific people in a specific period of time.

    Attempting to explain that NT scripture does not mean what it plainly says is another matter. I've explained using quoted posts what my research into ancient homosexual practices revealed: that is was NOT all about prostitution and temple-boys, but that practices more closely resembling modern homosexual practices were indeed part of Greek culture during relevant periods of history.

    The Greeks used the term Pederaesty to refer to most of the practices you're talking about, but the NT uses the term arsenkoites. If it referred only to pederasty, then why didn't it say pederasty instead? Instead a term that would likely be understood to more generally refer to homosexuality was used. The most straightforward interpretation is that the scriptures I refereced are condemning homosexuality generally, rather than certain specific ancient practices.... because the authors knew about those ancient practices, and if they meant only those then they would have been more specific.
    I was addressing Sodom, not pederaesty. I have my own beliefs on those particular parts of the scriptures, but know that there is no way we will agree on them, so I left it alone. I suspected that the post I quoted was directed at my earlier one, since I was the poster to use "ancient" ideas in my post, which you then used "ancient" practice in yours.

    If you look at the story of Sodom, then you must consider the ancient practices, especially Pagan superstitions, to interpret the passage. To understand why an entire town's population of men would come to try to rape angels. Why would they risk God's wrath for such an act? Those beliefs on sexual activities and potential power gains from a more powerful being are certainly a very good explanation. A much better one than "well all the men must have been gay".
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I was asked to explain myself. I did. I was told my explanation was wrong, so I explained further why I held my interpretation.

    The bible can be irrelevant to you, but it isn't to me.
    I didn't say its irrelevant in general OR to me so don't put words in my mouth because it is relevant to me. But in this debate it is irrelevant since we are talking about America and American laws, equal rights and not discriminating. Unless of course you feel all our laws should be based on your interpretations of the bible and that in itself is also wrong. Of course you have a right to feel that way but thankfully that's not what America is about.
    PURE STUPIDITY 1.) Glenn Beck doesnt lie. 2.) Obama is Jesus like 3.) Sara Palin is so smart & shes a great speaker. 4.) Obama does just about everything perfect. 5.) Fox doesn' t lean right 6.) Pro-Choice is no different than Pro-Slavery 7.) MSNBC doesn't lean left. 8.) What TSA does is no different than sexual assault & child porn.

  9. #1249
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Does the Bible ever say why it is wrong?
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Tell you what folks, we'll have a little contest.

    We will each start with a pile of motorcycle parts and a manual entitled "How to build a Harley Electroglide."

    I will interpret the manual as meaning exactly what it says.

    You will interpret the manual as not meaning what it says, but instead referring to some historical practices that are no longer relevant.


    First person to build a working motorcycle wins.
    Why a Harley the Japanese even after tutoring Harley on how to build a motorcycle that doesn't leak oil still build a more versatile bike.

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