View Poll Results: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

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Thread: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

  1. #1231
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Goshin, the problem is that it looks very like you are only seeing the possible interpretation you want to see. It is entirely within the realm of possibility that other interpretation are right. It is further within likely that the people who wrote the scripture interpreted things based on their own ideas.
    I think what Goshin has been saying is that it's very clear that the Bible teaches homosexuality as sinful and that it's very improbable that the Bible finds homosexuality to be a normal and non sinful behavior. It takes a lot of assumptions and textual contortions in order to interpret the Bible as teaching homosexuality as non sinful. As a Christian we believe that God inspired the Bible through His Holy Spirit and thus nothing in the Bible was written as the opinion/vision of mankind. Using scripture to interpret scripture is the best way to understand the Bible, and not one scripture would support homosexuality as being non sinful.

    Edit: Goshin beat me to it.
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I would assume that it means men who deliberately adopt a feminine persona, such as transvestites.

    And saying Sodom had nothing to do with homosexuality is simply disingenuous and untrue.
    On the story of Sodom, you really should go reread your Bible. I looked in both mine. The only mention whatsoever about anything even possibly able to be considered homosexual activity is the fact that the townsmen came to rape the angels. I have explained how this could be accounted for by them believing in ancient superstitions that fornicating with a being that had powers could give those powers to the person committing the act. I doubt very much that it would have mattered if the angels were male or female. And neither God nor the angels ever mention that the city was being destroyed because of homosexuality or homosexual acts in themselves. And I think God would have been a lot more ticked off that they were actually trying to rape his angels then concerned with the fact that the act could be considered homosexual.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  3. #1233
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Well, I've spent a lot of time over the course of four decades working to understand the Bible. This includes studying the original texts and the meanings of the original words; the principles of Hermaneutics; and the thoughts of various noted theologians and commentators.

    The first principle of hermaneutics is that you interpret scripture, with more scripture. That is, you find other scripture that addresses the same topic or a very similar one, and see what that says.

    Looking at the whole bible, it seems improbable that homosexuality would not be viewed as sin, simply because "it is modern homosexuality".

    Don't you folks contend that homosexuality is inborn and a certain percentage of people have always been of homo orientation? Including in ancient times? Then why the assumption that ancient homo practices were one thing, and abominable to God, but "modern" homosexual practices are something new and different? Seems unlikely.

    As I say, it comes across as a convoluted attempt to wriggle around what the Bible says, and claim "it doesn't really mean what it seems to say".
    It's not the difference between modern homosexual feelings, and ancient homosexual feelings, because they are the same. The difference is how homosexuals act, today they act the same as hetero people in their relationships. But in ancient times it was a bit different, homosexuals didn't really have the option to live with a partner of their choosing. Marriage for love is a modern way of thinking about marriage, and back then getting married was often not determined by the people getting married. Therefore not wanting to get involved with a marriage because you were gay didn't really fly. If you did it could mean a death sentence, dishonor to your family etc, etc. It wasn't good, so most if not all hid their homosexuality. Also unlike today it was a necessity for everyone to procreate to keep their numbers up.

    In the Bible it never flat out says homosexuality is a sin, it talks about acts. And homosexuals don't act the way they do today as they did in ancient times. For homosexuals to participate in acts that were more congruent to their orientation, they often had to sin. Like go to, or be temple prostitutes, commit adultery against their spouse, worship false idols, to commit homosexual acts. And in those times, these acts were often associated with homosexuality. I don't think God really cares about homosexuality, but how homosexuals go about in treating their sexuality, and relationships. Which also rings true to hetero relationships. If homosexuality was sin, would we see so many other species exhibit homosexual tendencies, it doesn't produce any offspring, but they still do it. Why would God show us this in nature if homosexuality was a sin, and a choice just like any other sin, and not just innately a variation in His creation.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Tell you what folks, we'll have a little contest.

    We will each start with a pile of motorcycle parts and a manual entitled "How to build a Harley Electroglide."

    I will interpret the manual as meaning exactly what it says.

    You will interpret the manual as not meaning what it says, but instead referring to some historical practices that are no longer relevant.


    First person to build a working motorcycle wins.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    It's not the difference between modern homosexual feelings, and ancient homosexual feelings, because they are the same. The difference is how homosexuals act, today they act the same as hetero people in their relationships. But in ancient times it was a bit different, homosexuals didn't really have the option to live with a partner of their choosing. Marriage for love is a modern way of thinking about marriage, and back then getting married was often not determined by the people getting married. Therefore not wanting to get involved with a marriage because you were gay didn't really fly. If you did it could mean a death sentence, dishonor to your family etc, etc. It wasn't good, so most if not all hid their homosexuality. Also unlike today it was a necessity for everyone to procreate to keep their numbers up.

    In the Bible it never flat out says homosexuality is a sin, it talks about acts. And homosexuals don't act the way they do today as they did in ancient times. For homosexuals to participate in acts that were more congruent to their orientation, they often had to sin. Like go to, or be temple prostitutes, commit adultery against their spouse, worship false idols, to commit homosexual acts. And in those times, these acts were often associated with homosexuality. I don't think God really cares about homosexuality, but how homosexuals go about in treating their sexuality, and relationships. Which also rings true to hetero relationships. If homosexuality was sin, would we see so many other species exhibit homosexual tendencies, it doesn't produce any offspring, but they still do it. Why would God show us this in nature if homosexuality was a sin, and a choice just like any other sin, and not just innately a variation in His creation.

    Absolute nonesense. In Greece, which I assure you the writers of the NT were familiar with, homosexuality was widely accepted in various forms, and as my research indicated above this included adult males with adult males in equal relationships.

    More wiggling. Some of you just don't want to accept that the Bible means what it says, becasue you don't like what it says, and you're trying to justify it with all kinds of around-the-block convolutions.

    1Cr 6:9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,


    Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
    The bolded phrase is in the original Greek the word arsenokoites, which Thayer's lexicon translates as one who lies with a male as with a female, sodomite, homosexual
    .
    Last edited by Goshin; 06-13-10 at 11:04 PM.

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    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  6. #1236
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Tell you what folks, we'll have a little contest.

    We will each start with a pile of motorcycle parts and a manual entitled "How to build a Harley Electroglide."

    I will interpret the manual as meaning exactly what it says.

    You will interpret the manual as not meaning what it says, but instead referring to some historical practices that are no longer relevant.


    First person to build a working motorcycle wins.
    If you are considering stories from the Bible, then you must consider the thinking of the people of that time. Interpreting it with just the thinking of modern times is just not being honest. The way the people back then thought is actually more important in interpreting the Bible then the way we think now.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  8. #1238
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Ha!
    anybody need cheese with their "whine"
    PURE STUPIDITY 1.) Glenn Beck doesnt lie. 2.) Obama is Jesus like 3.) Sara Palin is so smart & shes a great speaker. 4.) Obama does just about everything perfect. 5.) Fox doesn' t lean right 6.) Pro-Choice is no different than Pro-Slavery 7.) MSNBC doesn't lean left. 8.) What TSA does is no different than sexual assault & child porn.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    All this bible stuff is fine and dandy, it's sorta interesting to hear people interpret their religions/books and what they think it means. I just can't help to think one thing though, it doesn't matter! It has it has no impact on the OP and topic at hand really, it's a sub-disccussion. Why? because even if the bible was against it or if it was all for it, that has no impact on the law and why it is still discrimination to deny them equal rights.
    PURE STUPIDITY 1.) Glenn Beck doesnt lie. 2.) Obama is Jesus like 3.) Sara Palin is so smart & shes a great speaker. 4.) Obama does just about everything perfect. 5.) Fox doesn' t lean right 6.) Pro-Choice is no different than Pro-Slavery 7.) MSNBC doesn't lean left. 8.) What TSA does is no different than sexual assault & child porn.

  10. #1240
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by O_Guru View Post
    Ha!
    anybody need cheese with their "whine"
    Ironically enough, I understand the cheese get's it's color from being emulsed in - *drum roll* - wine.

    I quote: "This cheese gets its distinctive purple hue from a Cabernet emulsion, which also creates a taste unlike anything you’ve tried before."
    Info Link: Just scroll down a bit.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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