View Poll Results: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

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    186 43.26%
  • Yes, explain

    244 56.74%
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Thread: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

  1. #1171
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by sweEt Mauritius View Post
    People misinterpreted God's word then, and the same thing is happening now in my opinion. People opposed interracial marriage because they thought it was sinful, harming children, unnatural, etc. It's the exact same arguments that are being used now. And they have already been proven false.
    I would appreciate if you would point out the misinterpitation here:

    Romans 1:25-28

    25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.
    26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
    27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
    28 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.


    I Corinthians 6:9-10

    9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
    10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.


    This is all NT so it applies specifically to the Christian denominations. Looks pretty clear cut to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  2. #1172
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by sweEt Mauritius View Post
    People opposed interracial marriage because they thought it was sinful, harming children, unnatural, etc. It's the exact same arguments that are being used now. And they have already been proven false.
    nothing more than this really needs said
    99% of the so called arguments were the same used against women, minorities, disabled, interracial marriage etc. They had no value, were arrogant, hypocritical, discrimitive and shallow then and that still reamins true today.
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  3. #1173
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by sweEt Mauritius View Post
    It's so completely unnecessary to create a paperwork nightmare simply because some religious people aren't able to understand the clear difference between the secular and religious parts and definitions of marriage. They are already separate. Clinging to semantic arguments and pretending that they aren't separate doesn't change that reality.


    agreed not to mention gays can still claim discrimination and rightfully so, while id support what ever made it easy for people not to be discriminated against by bigots, oppressors and others changing the name is still easily argued has discrimination.
    Last edited by AGENT J; 06-13-10 at 05:40 PM.
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  4. #1174
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I would appreciate if you would point out the misinterpitation here:

    Romans 1:25-28

    25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.
    26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
    27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
    28 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.


    I Corinthians 6:9-10

    9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
    10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.


    This is all NT so it applies specifically to the Christian denominations. Looks pretty clear cut to me.
    First of all, what Bible is that? Because the term "homosexual" did not appear in print until the 1869. So right there is an example of human interpretation, and I'd love to know what the actual words were in place of "homosexual offenders" prior to 1869.

    And here's a great link written by a Biblical scholar on homosexuality and the Bible : What the Bible Says - And Doesn't Say - About Homosexuality

    In general, people DID misinterpret the Bible. Because somehow the Virginia Supreme Court interpreted that it was God's will to prevent interracial marriage. It's quite obvious that they misinterpreted God's word.

  5. #1175
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    if he isnt "implying" that then his statement is MEANINGLESS because otherwise his statement is FOR gay marriage not against it because he statement would then read like this, "you can't change history which is mostly straight marriage to now making it <big pause> mostly straight marriage" lol nothing changes if thats what he mean
    I challenge anyone to make sense of that statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    if im wrong, then so be it but if you are right his statement is meaningless because allowing gay marriage would NOT change history
    Yes you were wrong. And you have still missed his point utterly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    then we agree his statement is meaningless to the debate and has no barring, thanks
    I said nothing of the kind, you did in error.

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    says you but like i said if my interpretation of what he was saying is right, then his argument is meaningless
    if yours is right, his argument is still meaningless
    so either way, its meaningless, which it is
    What? You are just repeating the same thing again, already responded to this above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    no fallacy at all you claim that by not doing anything you support it and im willing to bet that there are things you know about you do nothing about
    You can bet, and you would loose. If I know about it, I speak out about it a refuse to let it just go on if I can.

    You don’t know me. You know very little about me. Please don’t try and guess who I am or what I am about. I know my own mind better than you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    no matter how much you want it to be its not a rant, the point is you better try and stop me or you are showing support, you may not believe my example to be sin but my point is clear there are many people that do nothing and in america they shouldn’t
    Just by posting here I am stopping you. Even if just one person reads my words and agrees, well guess what?

    Makes your statement no less a silly nonsensical rant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    does that mean you cant answer or im more right than you want to admit? LMAO
    I said correct me if im wrong so do so if i am? I didnt say you feel this way for sure im asking since it would "seem" true with your logic and reasoning

    see how that works, its more civil and intelligent than just assuming and proclaiming how someone else feels even if they tell you different like you have done in previous threads
    If you do not offer respect, why should I offer it to you? It is a two way street and by the rules of debate, you have already lost by disrespecting me. Ad-homs are not acceptable.

    You in all cases have started with the name calling. You have gotten warnings in this thread, I have not. What does this tell you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    oh its clear hypocrisy and discriminative whether you chose to see it or not, those two facts wont change
    You are free to think what you like, it does not make it the truth or reality in any way.

    Actually I don’t even know why I responded, I knew this is about what would happen.

    So you have a good one.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 06-13-10 at 05:53 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  6. #1176
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by sweEt Mauritius View Post
    First of all, what Bible is that? Because the term "homosexual" did not appear in print until the 1869. So right there is an example of human interpretation, and I'd love to know what the actual words were in place of "homosexual offenders" prior to 1869.

    And here's a great link written by a Biblical scholar on homosexuality and the Bible : What the Bible Says - And Doesn't Say - About Homosexuality

    In general, people DID misinterpret the Bible. Because somehow the Virginia Supreme Court interpreted that it was God's will to prevent interracial marriage. It's quite obvious that they misinterpreted God's word.
    I am sorry some pro gay website on the Internet is not a good reference.

    In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another.

    Nothing about the word homosexual. Direct translation from the scrolls in the NIV. So what now?

    Please explain what this one means.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  7. #1177
    Sporadic insanity normal.


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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by sweEt Mauritius View Post
    It's so completely unnecessary to create a paperwork nightmare simply because some religious people aren't able to understand the clear difference between the secular and religious parts and definitions of marriage. They are already separate. Clinging to semantic arguments and pretending that they aren't separate doesn't change that reality.
    Well, I agree they are obviously separate (apart from a shared title).

    And yes, such a change has the potential to be a “paperwork nightmare”.

    But I still think it would be a solution to stop some of the bickering, as long as the “civil unions” are available in a fair manner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    Agreed. Not to mention, gays can still claim discrimination and rightfully so, while I would support whatever made it easy for people not to be discriminated against, bigots, oppressors and others changing the name is still easily argued as discrimination.
    Ok, we’re back to this disagreement.

    How in the hell does this equal discrimination?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    …changing the name of all legal marriages to “civil unions” or something, the purpose of which is to completely separate the secular and religious parts of marriage.
    As long as those “civil unions” are made available in a fair manner by the government.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  8. #1178
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I am sorry some pro gay website on the Internet is not a good reference.
    LOL did you even read any of it? If your going to blatantly ignore an analysis that takes into account historical context, historical language, etc. simply because you don't want to hear it, then I don't know what to tell you.

    In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another.

    Nothing about the word homosexual. Direct translation from the scrolls in the NIV. So what now?

    Please explain what this one means.[/QUOTE]

    Well I'm not a Protestant so the NIV doesn't really have any personal bearing on me. But anyway, I've already made it clear that I don't agree with your interpretation. My interpretation of that is that when that was written, people did not understand sexual orientation in general, so in their ignorance they labeled it as unnatural. Of course, I have no idea what the context is so I can't really elaborate any more to be honest. But it's pointless for this to devolve into a discussion of what is and isn't sinful and why in the eyes of different people.

  9. #1179
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Well, I agree they are obviously separate (apart from a shared title).

    And yes, such a change has the potential to be a “paperwork nightmare”.

    But I still think it would be a solution to stop some of the bickering, as long as the “civil unions” are available in a fair manner.
    When has "to stop some of the bickering" ever been a legitimate reason for the state to create separate but completely equal institutions. The only reason to create civil unions with all of the exact same rights as civil marriage is to appease the people who are uncomfortable with the legal term marriage. That's not a legitimate reason, and I won't settle for it when there's not a compelling state interest.

  10. #1180
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    It is incredibly biased and has an admitted agenda. If I offered evidence from the Phelps family site would you accept it?
    Shame on you for assuming.

    It is a biased and has a politically driven agenda. Even read part of the mission statement.

    Would you accept evidence from the Phelps Church family website against homosexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Well I'm not a Protestant so the NIV doesn't really have any personal bearing on me. But anyway, I've already made it clear that I don't agree with your interpretation. My interpretation of that is that when that was written, people did not understand sexual orientation in general, so in their ignorance they labeled it as unnatural.
    So the people were ignorant back then is why you think the interpretation is wrong? You do realize that makes no sense at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Of course, I have no idea what the context is so I can't really elaborate any more to be honest. But it's pointless for this to devolve into a discussion of what is and isn't sinful and why in the eyes of different people.
    Well even without context the sentence with the rest of what I posted is pretty clear.

    I admit it is not worth arguing over.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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