View Poll Results: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

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  • No

    186 43.26%
  • Yes, explain

    244 56.74%
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Thread: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

  1. #1101
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    No. It's about not condoning/legitimizing it as a good choice, not just a "sin" but a sinful "life style."
    You say "no", but then explain "yes".

    de·le·git·i·mize
    Pronunciation: \-ˈji-tə-ˌmīz\
    Function: transitive verb
    Date: 1968

    : to diminish or destroy the legitimacy, prestige, or authority of <delegitimize a government>

    Delegitimize - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
    It's like seperate water fountains. Gays are allowed to have water (rights), but they must drink from the "civil unions" fountain so not to taint the "marriate" fountain. That's how I see the civil unions vesrsus marriage distinction.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



  2. #1102
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    It's been noted in other polls that DP has a disproportionately large number of members that are atheist or agnostic.... yet if you look at this thread's poll, those opposed to gay marriage lead about 60 to 40 percent.

    There are lots of people who are not particularly religious, or not religious at all, who are against gay marriage.

    Blackdog and I both have, at the core, religious reservations that prevent us from supporting SSM. That isn't the only reason that people have against it, however. Some have concerns that this precedent will open the door for other, stranger arraingements, or for lawsuits against churches that refuse to conduct gay ceremonies.

    For some it is probably simply a gut reaction that "gay" and "marriage" go togther like brussel sprouts and ice cream.

    Whatever the reason, a large majority in the US still oppose it. Possibly that will change in 20 or 40 years. Possibly it won't; predicting trends can be difficult.
    Well if anyone's disapproval of gay marriage comes from a gut-level discomfort similar to strange food combos, they need to wake up and treat the topic seriously before arguing against its legality. And actually, polls have found that the people who oppose gay marriage are almost overwhelmingly more religious, which is important to note. So your argument that lots of people oppose gay marriage who are not religious doesn't stand. In fact, a Gallup poll from May found that while only 27% of those whose religion is "very important" supported same-sex marriage, 71% of those who found religion to be "not important" supported it. So relatively speaking, there really aren't lots of people who aren't religious at all who are against gay marriage. There certainly are exceptions on both sides, but in general your assertion is basically false.

    And there's really no denying that the larger trend has been and continues to be that acceptance of gay relationships and gay marriage is rising. It's not lightning speed, but it's changed drastically from the earliest polls on the subject from the late 1970s. So bottom line is that there is a difference in the amount of people who support and oppose gay marriage (9 percentage points), but it certainly isn't a "large majority" like you claim. And a majority of Americans don't even see anything immoral about homosexual relationships, and that number has been growing consistently as well. So while trends in general might be hard to predict, this trend sure isn't hard to predict. People are clearly supporting gay marriage more and more.

    Here are some of the links, which are very interesting reads no matter which side of the debate you're on: Americans' Opposition to Gay Marriage Eases Slightly, Americans' Acceptance of Gay Relations Crosses 50% Threshold .

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    At any rate, demonizing those who oppose the idea of changing the definition of marriage doesn't make your cause more appealing to those who might be undecided.
    Considering your reasoning behind opposing it is that it is sinful (technically you said you had religious reservations, so correct me if I'm wrong in assuming you think it's sinful), who is really the one doing the demonizing? The people who are being told they don't deserve social acceptance or legal security? I don't think so..
    Last edited by sweEt Mauritius; 06-12-10 at 08:58 PM.

  3. #1103
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    You say "no", but then explain "yes".
    No I did not.

    I don't see it as "legitimate" now. Nothing to destroy.

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    It's like seperate water fountains. Gays are allowed to have water (rights), but they must drink from the "civil unions" fountain so not to taint the "marriate" fountain. That's how I see the civil unions vesrsus marriage distinction.
    That is a much better argument than it is a violation of church and state.

    The only problem is sexual preference is not race. The fact is people can say you are born with it, but science is still out on that. No "gay gene" has been found etc. Evidence suggesting otherwise is out there, but this is by no means conclusive.

    This has little to do with the debate. Unless you can show I do not have the right to support laws I see as right vs those I see as wrong. You really have no argument here.

    I mean as much as I like your example, it really makes little difference.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 06-12-10 at 09:14 PM.
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  4. #1104
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    No I did not.

    I don't see it as "legitimate" now. Nothing to destroy.
    Then why even bother giving them civil unions and the same rights as marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    That is a much better argument than it is a violation of church and state.

    The only problem is sexual preference is not race. The fact is people can say you are born with it, but science is still out on that. No "gay gene" has been found etc. Evidence suggesting otherwise is out there, but this is by no means conclusive.
    It doesn't really matter if they are born gay or choose to be gay. It's about two same-sex individuals' liberty to enter into a marriage with the rights that heterosexuals currently have. As it would not harm one other person, there is no need to restrict them from this institution. There is no need to give it another title as each marriage is a personal institution that doesn't affect other peoples' institutions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    This has little to do with the debate. Unless you can show I do not have the right to support laws I see as right vs those I see as wrong. You really have no argument here.
    This thread isn't titled "Blackdog, does he have the right to choose whether to support laws or not?". It's "Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?" You've done this with other people. I'm on topic. You are changing topics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I mean as much as I like your example, it really makes little difference.
    Thanks.

    Sexual orientation should not be a discriminating factor as far as the government is concerned.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    It's like seperate water fountains. Gays are allowed to have water (rights), but they must drink from the "civil unions" fountain so not to taint the "marriate" fountain. That's how I see the civil unions vesrsus marriage distinction.
    Or like separate restrooms. Like how men are allowed to use the restroom (right) but they have to use the "men's" restroom as opposed to the "women's" restroom.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    You say "no", but then explain "yes".



    It's like seperate water fountains. Gays are allowed to have water (rights), but they must drink from the "civil unions" fountain so not to taint the "marriate" fountain. That's how I see the civil unions vesrsus marriage distinction.

    "Separate but equal is inherently unequal."

    - US Supreme Court, 1951, Brown v. Board of Education

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Panache View Post
    Or like separate restrooms. Like how men are allowed to use the restroom (right) but they have to use the "men's" restroom as opposed to the "women's" restroom.
    No, women and men have seperate bathrooms for security reasons. It's not practical to put police officers in every restroom.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    No, women and men have seperate bathrooms for security reasons. It's not practical to put police officers in every restroom.
    And it is practical to put police officers next to every drinking fountain?

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    "Separate but equal is inherently unequal."

    - US Supreme Court, 1951, Brown v. Board of Education
    Which is why men and women now use the same restrooms...

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    No, women and men have seperate bathrooms for security reasons. It's not practical to put police officers in every restroom.
    Meh. It's not a security issue.
    I think it's a holdover from a previous era. A matter of archaic "propriety". An anachronism.
    Nobody's complained vocally enough, so it hasn't changed.

    I've used men's restrooms on numerous occasions without any issues.
    Cleaning staff- of both sexes- enter both restrooms numerous times per shift in order to clean them, without mishap.
    If it were a "security issue", mothers wouldn't allow their seven-year-old sons to go use the men's restroom alone while they wait outside the door.
    Women don't send their elementary-school-aged children alone into places that they feel are not safe for they themselves to enter.

    If someone were penalized in some way for entering the wrong restroom, and the matter went to the Supreme Court... they'd rule that both sexes have the right to use any public restroom.

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