View Poll Results: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

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    186 43.26%
  • Yes, explain

    244 56.74%
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Thread: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

  1. #101
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    rolleyes Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    I'm advocating on behalf of children and you are advocating against them. That is the case.
    Yep,.. you got me,.. that's what I'm known for.

    And with tactics like this, you wonder why you have a hard time getting the results you want.

    /ignore

  2. #102
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    Yep,.. you got me,.. that's what I'm known for.

    And with tactics like this, you wonder why you have a hard time getting the results you want.

    /ignore
    As a completely off-topic side discussion...

    I don't see the point of actually using the ignore function to ignore someone.

    You may disagree, and their arguements may make no sense whatsoever to you (or even anyone, for that matter), but they still exist, and ignoring them may lead to your forgetting that line of arguement (however insane, in your opinion).
    Education.

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    Thumbs up Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    As a completely off-topic side discussion...

    I don't see the point of actually using the ignore function to ignore someone.

    You may disagree, and their arguements may make no sense whatsoever to you (or even anyone, for that matter), but they still exist, and ignoring them may lead to your forgetting that line of arguement (however insane, in your opinion).
    I've deleoped (over time) another use for the ignore function.

    You're right,.. their sentiments will continue to exist regardless.

    I use the ignore function to remind myself the type person I'm dealing with. And When I peek at what they say,... I do so with it in mind that it's likely not going to be a productive exchange were I to re-engage them in debate.

    It's a time managment thing.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    I've developed (over time) another use for the ignore function.

    You're right,.. their sentiments will continue to exist regardless.

    I use the ignore function to remind myself the type person I'm dealing with. And When I peek at what they say,... I do so with it in mind that it's likely not going to be a productive exchange were I to re-engage them in debate.

    It's a time management thing.
    Ah, thanks for the explanation.

    Edit: Back on topic now, side discussion over.
    Education.

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  5. #105
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Hmm, that could be.

    I think what I read had more to do with the different parenting styles that a male would use as opposed to a female, and how the two combined would be better than two females.

    Although not much, if I recall.

    Perhaps if I rephrase, as I recall more of that which I read.

    If two persons raise a child with the well-being of the child in mind, all things being equal, a male-female parent combo will result in a more balanced child than a female-female combo.

    Although only just.

    A male-male combo would be third, followed by a single female, and lastly by a single male.

    Of course, that doesn't count multiple females and one male, or multiple males and one female, or multiple females and multiple males, in any given combo.

    But those are the exceptions, not the rule.

    And, of course, this was presented as a general guideline, as there would always be exceptions.
    The gender role hypothesis. There isn't any evidence to back it up. The thing is that a child is exposed to more than just their parents. Grandparents, uncles, aunts, teachers, mentors, etc. A child who is raised by two parents of the same sex will still develop their gender role. No study have ever found that children raised by lesbians or gays are any better or worse adjusted than those raised by heterosexual couples.

    For you benefit, here is the original argument I made with the evidence to back it up.
    There are 8 to 10 million children of gay parents and same sex couples and the latest 25 years of research indicates that gay couples can raise children just as well as different sex couples. Furthermore there are tens of thousands of children in the foster care system who will never be adopted by a different sex couple and who would do better being raised by a married same sex couple than they would being raised by the state or by an individual parent. Two parent homes whether different sex or opposite sex, are the best at raising children, and the state has an interest in promoting them for the purpose of raising children. Even institutions like the American Pediatric Association have conclusively found that those children would benefit from same sex marriage.

    So if you believe in general welfare, then I would assume you believe in the welfare of all those children, and thus you would choose to support same sex marriage.

    Gay and Lesbian Adoptive Parents: Resources for Professionals and Parents-Gay and Lesbian Adoptive Parents: Resources for Professionals and Parents

    http://www.teach.virginia.edu/files/...rents_cdps.pdf

    The Effects of Marriage, Civil Union, and Domestic Partnership Laws on the Health and Well-being of Children -- Pawelski et al. 118 (1): 349 -- Pediatrics
    The reason some people believe in the gender hypothesis is because social conservatives have misused statistics of single mothers, so called "fatherless" statistics, to argue that a parent of both sex is needed in the home. The reality is that most of the problems of those children are the result of being raised by a single parent, rather than by two parents. Half the income and attention alone accounts for why single parents have difficulty providing as adequate parenting as two parent homes.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 05-01-10 at 06:47 PM.

  6. #106
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    I've deleoped (over time) another use for the ignore function.

    You're right,.. their sentiments will continue to exist regardless.

    I use the ignore function to remind myself the type person I'm dealing with. And When I peek at what they say,... I do so with it in mind that it's likely not going to be a productive exchange were I to re-engage them in debate.

    It's a time managment thing.
    You are a social conservative. You use the ignore function to avoid arguments that threaten your beliefs. Since I reduced your argument to simply your opinion versus the facts, you had no choice but to run away or face changing your beliefs. Call it what you want, it is cowardice.

    And no, I'm not going to be nice to someone who ignores facts so that they can dictate what kind of relationship I can have.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 05-01-10 at 06:47 PM.

  7. #107
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    The gender role hypothesis. There isn't any evidence to back it up. The thing is that a child is exposed to more than just their parents. Grandparents, uncles, aunts, teachers, mentors, etc. A child who is raised by two parents of the same sex will still develop their gender role. No study have ever found that children raised by lesbians or gays are any better or worse adjusted than those raised by heterosexual couples.
    Hmm, that could be.

    It wasn't presented as a gender role issue though, but more as if the male-female combo provided a broader spectrum of responses and thus better developed the child.

    The female half was presented as having a greater effect, and thus a female-female combo was a close second.

    Or something like that...

    But the thought of other relatives did occur to me when I was typing my last post. Depending on what role they played, it would obviously have a corresponding effect.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    For you benefit, here is the original argument I made with the evidence to back it up.
    Thanks


    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    The reason some people believe in the gender hypothesis is because social conservatives have misused statistics of single mothers, so called "fatherless" statistics, to argue that a parent of both sex is needed in the home. The reality is that most of the problems of those children are the result of being raised by a single parent, rather than by two parents. Half the income and attention alone accounts for why single parents have difficulty providing as adequate parenting as two parent homes.
    I don’t have any way of knowing that this is true, but it does sound plausible.

    It would seem that even if you removed the income aspect, the attention time aspect required would still lead to better results from two or more parental figures. Not to mention watching the by-play between two or more parents probably assists in a child’s communication skill development.

    A thought I had, however…

    I don’t suppose there is much data out there, but I wonder if multiple (as in, more than two) direct parental figures has a positive or negative effect on a child’s development?

    Damn, I'm getting sidetracked from the gay marriage issue here...
    Education.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Regarding the aspect of this discussion focused on the children facet of marriage.

    I think I read somewhere that as a general rule, a Male + Female parent combo was best for raising a child.

    Followed by Female + Female.

    I cannot recall where I read this, and it obviously depends on the individuals involved, but I thought I’d throw it into the mix.
    Probably has something to do with promiscuity and the stability of said relationships, but idk.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    I don’t suppose there is much data out there, but I wonder if multiple (as in, more than two) direct parental figures has a positive or negative effect on a child’s development?

    Damn, I'm getting sidetracked from the gay marriage issue here...
    There is an old saying. "It takes a tribe to raise a child."

    Humans are primates, and that means we naturally congregate in formations of several extended families called tribes. The nuclear family is an artificial construct that has only emerged in the last few hundred years of human existence.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    There is an old saying. "It takes a tribe to raise a child."

    Humans are primates, and that means we naturally congregate in formations of several extended families called tribes. The nuclear family is an artificial construct that has only emerged in the last few hundred years of human existence.
    So one could argue that Mormons are actually the true conservatives?




    Just sayin'

    Edit: Actually, that's probably not quite the same...More like a really large "nuclear family".
    Last edited by The Mark; 05-01-10 at 08:19 PM.
    Education.

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