View Poll Results: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

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  • No

    186 43.26%
  • Yes, explain

    244 56.74%
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Thread: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

  1. #1071
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    And that is the difference. Anyone can claim to be married, anyone ceremony or not.
    Exactly. That's what we have been trying to explain. There are two forms of marriage, civil and religious/private. Civil marriage is all about the license and making your marriage legally recognized by the state. Religious or private marriage is presenting yourself as a committed couple, claiming to be husband and wife, husband and husband, or wife and wife in everything you do. Most religious/private marriages are also civil marriages, and most civil marriages are also religious/private marriages, but neither needs the other to actually exist. The only time that there is truly a problem is when someone who hasn't or isn't allowed to have a civil marriage tries to claim their status as married on legal forms or for legal matters because they recognize themselves as married because of their religious/private marriage.

    As I've mentioned earlier, there are even some cases where two people are viewed as religiously/privately married, by their church or family, but don't consider themselves to actually be married, and are not married civilly.

    The bottom line is that civil marriage should be completely secular. Religious beliefs should have no say in who can be involved in a civil marriage. Now, the government can limit civil marriages, but those limitations should be fair. The best thing the government could do is to explain exactly why it endorses civil marriages, and make the civil marriage laws fit with that reasoning. As the marriage laws are right now, they discriminate against homosexual couples without a good reason why.
    Last edited by roguenuke; 06-12-10 at 12:20 PM.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  2. #1072
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Its good that nearly 60% are against homosexual marriage.

    As the marriage laws are right now, they discriminate against homosexual couples without a good reason why.
    The "reason" is your opinion NOT fact.
    Admittedly, I am on the bubble, but, we must have respect for our existing religion as well as for the institution of marriage.

  3. #1073
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Its good that nearly 60% are against homosexual marriage.


    The "reason" is your opinion NOT fact.
    Admittedly, I am on the bubble, but, we must have respect for our existing religion as well as for the institution of marriage.
    The government has never actually given a reason for why they support any marriage. And DOMA is the only thing the government has put out that attempts to explain its discrimination against gays, but that reasoning is flawed in that it is essentially "because marriage has always been between a man and a woman", which isn't true and doesn't take into account all the other ways that marriage has changed throughout time, even in our own country.

    Religion has no place in our government's endorsement of marriage. We have separation of church and state. Our government does benefit from endorsing marriages, and that should be the focus of the government when it decides who can and cannot get married legally, how marriages benefit our country/society, not what marriage has been or how any religion feels about marriage. Once they establish those benefits of marriage to our society and make marriage laws that are completely fair and in line with those benefits, then civil marriage itself should be fair.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  4. #1074
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Its good that nearly 60% are against homosexual marriage.
    BTW, don't get too excited. It has already been established that since the poll results weren't made public, that someone has been stacking the deck on the side of against gay marriage. A mod put out earlier in this thread, that the results are definitely the opposite of what the poll shows, if you don't count "guest" votes.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #1075
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Its good that nearly 60% are against homosexual marriage.


    The "reason" is your opinion NOT fact.
    Admittedly, I am on the bubble, but, we must have respect for our existing religion as well as for the institution of marriage.
    I will ask again because no one answered me last time: What is the legitimate state interest in prohibiting same-sex civil marriages from being legal? What benefit to the state does the ban support? It certainly doesn't benefit society to prohibit same-sex marriage because organizations such as the American Psychological Association and the National Association for Social Workers stated to the California Supreme Court (this is straight off of Wikipedia lol):

    Homosexuality is neither a disorder nor a disease, but rather a normal variant of human sexual orientation. The vast majority of gay and lesbian individuals lead happy, healthy, well-adjusted, and productive lives. Many gay and lesbian people are in a committed same-sex relationship. In their essential psychological respects, these relationships are equivalent to heterosexual relationships. The institution of marriage affords individuals a variety of benefits that have a favorable impact on their physical and psychological well-being. A large number of children are currently being raised by lesbians and gay men, both in same-sex couples and as single parents. Empirical research has consistently shown that lesbian and gay parents do not differ from heterosexuals in their parenting skills, and their children do not show any deficits compared to children raised by heterosexual parents. State policies that bar same-sex couples from marrying are based solely on sexual orientation. As such, they are both a consequence of the stigma historically attached to homosexuality, and a structural manifestation of that stigma. By allowing same-sex couples to marry, the Court would end the antigay stigma imposed by the State of California through its ban on marriage rights for same-sex couples. In addition, allowing same-sex couples to marry would give them access to the social support that already facilitates and strengthens heterosexual marriages, with all of the psychological and physical health benefits associated with that support. In addition, if their parents are allowed to marry, the children of same-sex couples will benefit not only from the legal stability and other familial benefits that marriage provides, but also from elimination of state-sponsored stigmatization of their families. There is no scientific basis for distinguishing between same-sex couples and heterosexual couples with respect to the legal rights, obligations, benefits, and burdens conferred by civil marriage.
    So if you claim it's not discrimination, then what is the "reason"? With scientific evidence that supports legalizing same-sex marriage to the detriment of no one (based on scientific evidence) and to the benefit of the entire gay/lesbian community, I honestly don't see how this is a matter of opinion at all. The above is factual information that there is no good reason to distinguish between legal rights for same-sex and opposite-sex couples.
    Last edited by sweEt Mauritius; 06-12-10 at 01:32 PM.

  6. #1076
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by sweEt Mauritius View Post
    I will ask again because no one answered me last time: What is the legitimate state interest in prohibiting same-sex civil marriages from being legal? What benefit to the state does the ban support? It certainly doesn't benefit society to prohibit same-sex marriage because organizations such as the American Psychological Association and the National Association for Social Workers stated to the California Supreme Court (this is straight off of Wikipedia lol).
    You won't get an answer because there is none. The anti-gay marriage people's arguments always boil down to "I don't like it so therefore no one else should be able to do it."

    That's why debating with them is a waste of time.

  7. #1077
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    They are only against gay marriage because of their christian cult, ha when a cult becomes successful it is called a religion, anyhow u aren't going to easily convince conservatives that banning gay marriage is completely against the America that I had learned about.

  8. #1078
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    And you are not authorized by the state to preform a legal ceremony, religious personnel are.

    So if you do it, like you said it means nothing. Not being recognized by the states means more than just no benefits. It means you are not married according to everyone else and every other state.
    Maybe it means nothing to the state, but it means everything to devout followers of the Panachian faith. And it doesn't mean that you aren't married according to everyone else. It just means you aren't married to people who consider marriage to be an exclusively institution. Every devout Panachian on the planet will consider you two married. ;-)

    Similarly, I know plenty of gay couples that consider themselves married, and all their friends consider them married. The state doesn't consider them married, but that's just because the state doesn't know any better.

  9. #1079
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Exactly, you just need the right set of circumstances before the state will officially endorse it and grant you all the benefits which that married status brings. Which is really the cruz of the issue here, same-sex couples are being denied those benefits.
    Then why do they have a problem with civil unions? You see that is not the issue here. If all the benefits were taken away from married hetero couples it would still be an issue because it is about legitimizing, not benefits.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    BTW, don't get too excited. It has already been established that since the poll results weren't made public, that someone has been stacking the deck on the side of against gay marriage. A mod put out earlier in this thread, that the results are definitely the opposite of what the poll shows, if you don't count "guest" votes.
    The poll on this web site is about as refeltive of public opinion as the internet polls on Ron Paul being elected president.

    So it means nothing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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