View Poll Results: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

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  • No

    186 43.26%
  • Yes, explain

    244 56.74%
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Thread: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

  1. #1061
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Nothing really to expand on. As a duly appointed officer (insert pastor, priest etc here) certified to preform a marriage by said state, it cannot be done without legal sanction from the state. You cannot get married without a license, this is the law in every state.

    This is most likely why most of them say "by the power invested in me by the (insert state)."
    You guys are clearly talking about different things. A duly appointed officer certified to perform a marriage by a state is certified to sign the legal document that gives them a bunch of legal privileges. If we are just talking about a religious ceremony that doesn't involve legal privileges, it obviously does not require a license. To demonstrate, I shall hold a Panachian wedding right here on this very forum.

    By the power vested in me by my own divine nature, I now pronounce you Blackdog, and you roguenuke, man and wife.

    See? We just had a Panachian religious ceremony. It was perfectly legal to do so, but unfortunately y'all don't get any legal benefits for being married according to the Panachian Church.

  2. #1062
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    First of all I wanted to thank you. I know you don’t see eye to eye with me on this issue. The fact that you took the time to not only understand what I was saying, you unlike most took the time to see it through my eyes. Even though we disagree, you did not throw insults veiled or open.

    Thank you very much. You are a winner in my book.

    Now that I am done with the sappy crap.

    Now your question about the law, no Federal law exists as far as I know. I did not know this until I went to get married in the state of Illinois. It is a state law and varies from state to state, but they are all pretty similar.

    Have a good one.
    Thank you to you too! It's been great to be able to hold a mature and civilized debate about such a controversial issue. I definitely respect your views and you've obviously put a lot of time and thought into them. I'm glad to end the discussion on a good note, something which doesn't seem to happen very often when people disagree.

    Cheers

  3. #1063
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Nothing really to expand on. As a duly appointed officer (insert pastor, priest etc here) certified to preform a marriage by said state, it cannot be done without legal sanction from the state. You cannot get married without a license, this is the law in every state.

    This is most likely why most of them say "by the power invested in me by the (insert state)."
    But that's just the problem. A minister, priest, officiant, anyone for that matter can perform the marriage ceremony, with or without a marriage license. They won't get fined or thrown in jail for simply performing the ceremony, going through whatever religious rites the church and/or couple wish to involve in their wedding. The only thing that would get anyone in the party actually into legal trouble would be attempting to somehow claim, on official forms or for official benefits, that they are in a state-endorsed marriage or misrepresenting themself as actually presiding over a state endorsed, legal (civil) marriage.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  4. #1064
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Panache View Post
    You guys are clearly talking about different things. A duly appointed officer certified to perform a marriage by a state is certified to sign the legal document that gives them a bunch of legal privileges. If we are just talking about a religious ceremony that doesn't involve legal privileges, it obviously does not require a license. To demonstrate, I shall hold a Panachian wedding right here on this very forum.

    By the power vested in me by my own divine nature, I now pronounce you Blackdog, and you roguenuke, man and wife.

    See? We just had a Panachian religious ceremony. It was perfectly legal to do so, but unfortunately y'all don't get any legal benefits for being married according to the Panachian Church.
    LOL!!

    It's a good thing my husband's in Great Lakes right now. I doubt he'd appreciate me getting into an "internet" marriage while he's away.

    You're right. But I was really actually wondering if there really was any laws in any states that said that a couple couldn't have a ceremony that they referred to as a wedding ceremony, without having a marriage license as well. I was surprised enough to find that they actually have laws against adultery that could be punished with as severe a punishment as life in prisonment (in Michigan, but I highly doubt it would fly nowadays) or that so many states actually have cohabitation laws (although none have been prosecuted in quite some time).
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #1065
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Panache View Post
    You guys are clearly talking about different things. A duly appointed officer certified to perform a marriage by a state is certified to sign the legal document that gives them a bunch of legal privileges. If we are just talking about a religious ceremony that doesn't involve legal privileges, it obviously does not require a license. To demonstrate, I shall hold a Panachian wedding right here on this very forum.

    By the power vested in me by my own divine nature, I now pronounce you Blackdog, and you roguenuke, man and wife.

    See? We just had a Panachian religious ceremony. It was perfectly legal to do so, but unfortunately y'all don't get any legal benefits for being married according to the Panachian Church.
    And you are not authorized by the state to preform a legal ceremony, religious personnel are.

    So if you do it, like you said it means nothing. Not being recognized by the states means more than just no benefits. It means you are not married according to everyone else and every other state.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  6. #1066
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    But that's just the problem. A minister, priest, officiant, anyone for that matter can perform the marriage ceremony, with or without a marriage license.
    No they will not. They are authorized by the state as officers appointed to do an official marriage ceremony. They are bound by the law.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    They won't get fined or thrown in jail for simply performing the ceremony, going through whatever religious rites the church and/or couple wish to involve in their wedding.
    Marriage Laws
    •In the United States, all states require a marriage license. Requirements such as age, waiting period and blood testing vary from state to state, but if you do not obtain this license prior to your wedding, the marriage will not be legal.
    - Can You Have a Wedding Without Obtaining a Marriage License? | eHow.com

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The only thing that would get anyone in the party actually into legal trouble would be attempting to somehow claim, on official forms or for official benefits, that they are in a state-endorsed marriage or misrepresenting themself as actually presiding over a state endorsed, legal (civil) marriage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  7. #1067
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    And you are not authorized by the state to preform a legal ceremony, religious personnel are.

    So if you do it, like you said it means nothing. Not being recognized by the states means more than just no benefits. It means you are not married according to everyone else and every other state.
    Technically, it's not just religious people who are authorized by the state to perform ceremonies. Anyone can get ordained nowdays. It was common practice while I was in the Navy for some guy on a ship or especially a sub to have his buddy get ordained in the state that him and his fiancee planned to get married in, and have the buddy perform the ceremony and/or sign the license. It was generally a lot cheaper than paying a minister/someone else already ordained to do it. And the ordained buddy could then perform other weddings, for a little bit of money if he wanted.

    And, actually, it depends. The couple's family/friends might consider the couple married without a license, especially if they went to the actual ceremony. This is especially true when it comes to homosexual couples, and moreso in states where they can't actually legally get married. If the family and friends are really accepting of the couple, then they most certainly would accept the couple as married. Now, I'm not saying that anyone would be under the delusion that the couple would actually be entitled to those benefits/privileges from the state or federal government that come from having an actual legal marriage. Most adults understand that a couple must have a license registered somewhere for a marriage to be considered legal. That wouldn't stop the couple from claiming to be husband and wife, husband and husband, or wife and wife.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  8. #1068
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Technically, it's not just religious people who are authorized by the state to perform ceremonies. Anyone can get ordained nowdays. It was common practice while I was in the Navy for some guy on a ship or especially a sub to have his buddy get ordained in the state that him and his fiancee planned to get married in, and have the buddy perform the ceremony and/or sign the license. It was generally a lot cheaper than paying a minister/someone else already ordained to do it. And the ordained buddy could then perform other weddings, for a little bit of money if he wanted.

    And, actually, it depends. The couple's family/friends might consider the couple married without a license, especially if they went to the actual ceremony. This is especially true when it comes to homosexual couples, and moreso in states where they can't actually legally get married. If the family and friends are really accepting of the couple, then they most certainly would accept the couple as married. Now, I'm not saying that anyone would be under the delusion that the couple would actually be entitled to those benefits/privileges from the state or federal government that come from having an actual legal marriage. Most adults understand that a couple must have a license registered somewhere for a marriage to be considered legal. That wouldn't stop the couple from claiming to be husband and wife, husband and husband, or wife and wife.
    And that is the difference. Anyone can claim to be married, anyone ceremony or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  9. #1069
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    And that is the difference. Anyone can claim to be married, anyone ceremony or not.
    Exactly, you just need the right set of circumstances before the state will officially endorse it and grant you all the benefits which that married status brings. Which is really the cruz of the issue here, same-sex couples are being denied those benefits.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  10. #1070
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    No they will not. They are authorized by the state as officers appointed to do an official marriage ceremony. They are bound by the law.



    Marriage Laws
    •In the United States, all states require a marriage license. Requirements such as age, waiting period and blood testing vary from state to state, but if you do not obtain this license prior to your wedding, the marriage will not be legal.
    - Can You Have a Wedding Without Obtaining a Marriage License? | eHow.com
    Look, I understand that the marriage wouldn't be considered "legal", but that's not the point. The couple could still legally go through a marriage ceremony, have a wedding, without a license. No one could get into any legal trouble for doing so. Now, like I said earlier, if you can actually show me a state that has a law against a ceremony without a license, then I'll accept the exception, but I highly doubt there is any state in the US that would try to make it punishable to have a wedding ceremony (with either fines and/or jail time). And if such a case did come up, I think it would get struck down eventually, even if it had to go to the SCOTUS. The state cannot legally prevent people from performing private ceremonies that don't harm anyone or anything.

    Now, if the couple tried to claim on legal forms that they are married, then the state/federal government could prosecute them. Now there are some exceptions even to this. A few states still will recognize certain situations as married without a license. I found out that in New York, you don't technically need a license. A few states have common-law marriage laws. But generally speaking, common law marriages only apply to the state. It's not federally legal.

    N.Y. Validates License-less Religious Marriages But Not N.J., Unless…
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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