View Poll Results: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

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    186 43.26%
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Thread: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

  1. #1051
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    Gay marriage won't infringe on anyone's right to practice their religion.
    I like the irrelevant rebuttal, independent. It's quite obvious that I was saying that Your Star's citation of the First Amendment as an argument against legislation motivated by religious views was a load of crap.
    Last edited by Black_Zawisza; 06-11-10 at 04:09 AM.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Zawisza View Post
    I like the irrelevant rebuttal, independent. It's quite obvious that I was saying that Your Star's citation of the First Amendment as an argument against legislation motivated by religious views was a load of crap.
    I see what you are saying. No one will be hurt by gay marriage so why prevent it?
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  3. #1053
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    You can have a private religious ceremony but it would mean nothing. The state would not recognize it as legal and so no operating room visits etc.

    Itís not the same.
    I was just responding to the assertion that polygamy was illegal. Polygamy under the law is illegal (in the sense that you canít be legally married and receive legal benefits for a marriage that includes more than two people), but religions are free to practice polygamy under their separate religious definitions of marriage. For example, a polygynous marriage condoned by Islamic law between a man and four women would not be illegal (and they would not be arrested) unless the man attempted to obtain marriage licenses that legally committed him to each individual woman at the same time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    The specifications for obtaining a marriage licence vary between states. In general, however, both parties must appear in person at the time the licence is obtained; be of marriageable age (i.e. over 18 years; lower in some states with the consent of a parent); present proper identification (typically a driver's licence, state ID card, birth certificate or passport; more documentation may be required for those born outside of the United States); and neither must be married to anyone else (proof of spouse's death or divorce may be required, by someone who had been previously married in some states).
    Many states require 1 to 6 days to pass, between the granting of the licence and the marriage ceremony. After the marriage ceremony, both spouses and the officiant sign the marriage licence (some states also require a witness). The officiant or couple then files for a certified copy of the marriage licence and a marriage certificate with the appropriate authority. Some states also have a requirement that a licence be filed within a certain time after its issuance, typically 30 or 60 days, following which a new licence must be obtained.
    - Marriage licence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    You cannot have a religious cerimony without the license. If you do it will not be legal, as I said before.
    I agree, it wouldnít be considered a legal marriage under the law without a marriage license. But I didnít know that it was illegal to even have a private religious ceremony with no attempt to obtain legal recognition. An Islamic man can be arrested because he engages in a religious ceremony that allows polygyny under the religious law? Itís not like heís trying to obtain multiple civil marriage licenses, which would be illegal. Iím honestly curious which law says that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    You have missed my point completely.

    You are free to vote, protest etc to have any law changed you wish. Separation of church and state means no law shall be based on religious laws. This does not mean people cannot lobby or vote for laws that are similar. I mean murder is against biblical law, and it is also against the law in the US. So because they are similar, laws against murder are unconstitutional? Of course not.

    So we are free to lobby etc for changes and work within the system for that change. If you donít like it you can take it to court to see if it will withstand the challenge.
    Ok, I see your point. I guess I just personally disagree that people should in good conscience vote based on their religion, but I understand why you think that and it just comes down to a difference in opinion on this point lol.

  4. #1054
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Panache View Post
    I have yet to see proof of this. Being gay is a sexual preference. It seems logical then that being gay is less like someone's race, and more like someone's taste in music, or food, or movies, etc...

    Do people sit down and say "I am going to choose to like classical music" or "I have just decided that I am going to enjoy smoking Camel cigarettes more than I enjoy smoking Marlboros?" Maybe not, but they do make a choice to listen to classical music, and they do make a choice to try smoking cigarettes, and their preferences in that regard will be influenced in some way by the choices they make.

    Why does it even matter? Suppose that I am right, and it is a lifestyle choice. Does that suddenly make it ok to discriminate against them? Would it be ok to discriminate against people who prefer to listen to Chopin rather than Garth Brooks? How is whether its a choice or not even relevant to your argument here?
    It's actually not a preference at all. The definition of preference from my dictionary is "a greater liking for one alternative over another or others; ex. a preference for long walks and tennis over jogging." Gay people do not "prefer" the same-sex, as in they could be heterosexual but they "prefer" to be homosexual. That implies some kind of choice, which simply isn't there.

    And it doesn't really matter whether someone's sexual orientation is caused by genes, pre- or post-natal environmental factors, hormone levels, parenting, or whatever. It's discrimination to treat people differently based on an arbitrary trait like race, sexual orientation, etc. that has no bearing on job performance, intelligence, child-raising abilities, social functioning, etc. There has been no scientific evidence that same-sex marriage or other legal commitments hurts society (in fact, the evidence points to the contrary) so there is no legitimate state interest in treating same-sex couples different from opposite-sex couples under the law.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Every time this thread dies out someone starts it all over again and we go through the exact same arguments.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    Every time this thread dies out someone starts it all over again and we go through the exact same arguments.
    Read any 6 threads on GM. They are pretty much identical.
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Gay marriage is a big issue to me, and even I am tired of arguing it.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by sweEt Mauritius View Post
    An Islamic man can be arrested because he engages in a religious ceremony that allows polygyny under the religious law? Itís not like heís trying to obtain multiple civil marriage licenses, which would be illegal. Iím honestly curious which law says that.
    First of all I wanted to thank you. I know you donít see eye to eye with me on this issue. The fact that you took the time to not only understand what I was saying, you unlike most took the time to see it through my eyes. Even though we disagree, you did not throw insults veiled or open.

    Thank you very much. You are a winner in my book.

    Now that I am done with the sappy crap.

    Now your question about the law, no Federal law exists as far as I know. I did not know this until I went to get married in the state of Illinois. It is a state law and varies from state to state, but they are all pretty similar.

    Have a good one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
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  9. #1059
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Now your question about the law, no Federal law exists as far as I know. I did not know this until I went to get married in the state of Illinois. It is a state law and varies from state to state, but they are all pretty similar.

    Have a good one.
    Can you expand on this a little bit? I can't find any laws actually prohibiting ceremonies without a license. I know that there are some laws still on the books against cohabitation and even adultery, but I can't find anything against actually having a religious ceremony to declare your marriage without a license. Now, I know that it would not be legal to claim that you are legally married without a license (unless you meet the common law marriage requirements of the state you are in, if the state even recognizes common law marriages), but I don't see anyone truly being prosecuted for just going through a marriage ceremony without a license. I don't think it would hold up well in court without proof that the couple was actually trying to defraud the government or someone else with the unlicensed marriage.

    Even those laws against cohabitation and adultery that are on the books are rarely prosecuted and are now even being brought into question as far as their legality due to the SCOTUS decision Lawrence vs. Texas.

    Another example that also came to mind for me when I was reading through those posts on the difference between secular marriage and religious marriage was how the Catholic religion does not recognize divorce. While a Catholic couple may have their legal marriage dissolved through divorce, the fundamentalists Catholic church will still consider them married. My grandmother could not get married in the church to her second husband because of this, and my aunt and uncle couldn't get the church to perform a second wedding when they remarried. Some religions also won't perform weddings of couples that aren't both members of the church.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  10. #1060
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Can you expand on this a little bit? I can't find any laws actually prohibiting ceremonies without a license. I know that there are some laws still on the books against cohabitation and even adultery, but I can't find anything against actually having a religious ceremony to declare your marriage without a license. Now, I know that it would not be legal to claim that you are legally married without a license (unless you meet the common law marriage requirements of the state you are in, if the state even recognizes common law marriages), but I don't see anyone truly being prosecuted for just going through a marriage ceremony without a license. I don't think it would hold up well in court without proof that the couple was actually trying to defraud the government or someone else with the unlicensed marriage.

    Even those laws against cohabitation and adultery that are on the books are rarely prosecuted and are now even being brought into question as far as their legality due to the SCOTUS decision Lawrence vs. Texas.

    Another example that also came to mind for me when I was reading through those posts on the difference between secular marriage and religious marriage was how the Catholic religion does not recognize divorce. While a Catholic couple may have their legal marriage dissolved through divorce, the fundamentalists Catholic church will still consider them married. My grandmother could not get married in the church to her second husband because of this, and my aunt and uncle couldn't get the church to perform a second wedding when they remarried. Some religions also won't perform weddings of couples that aren't both members of the church.
    Nothing really to expand on. As a duly appointed officer (insert pastor, priest etc here) certified to preform a marriage by said state, it cannot be done without legal sanction from the state. You cannot get married without a license, this is the law in every state.

    This is most likely why most of them say "by the power invested in me by the (insert state)."
    Last edited by Black Dog; 06-12-10 at 01:26 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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