View Poll Results: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

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Thread: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Man View Post
    I don't advocate banning anything here, even if it was very unsafe. In fact if someone wants to kill themselves all I ask for is that they dig an appropriate size hole first to make it easy for clean-up and burial. All I'm asking for is for folks to be honest and not lie about the nature of a homosexual relationship.
    Except you seem to be confused about the nature of homosexual relationships, and of heterosexual ones.
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Man View Post
    I don't advocate banning anything here, even if it was very unsafe. In fact if someone wants to kill themselves all I ask for is that they dig an appropriate size hole first to make it easy for clean-up and burial. All I'm asking for is for folks to be honest and not lie about the nature of a homosexual relationship.
    But this comment of yours (about oral sex causing cancer) is not about homosexual relationships.

    It's about all relationships.

    Yet it seems to me you'd like to apply your point only to the discussion in regards to homosexuality.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by sweEt Mauritius View Post
    That's. exactly. what. a. civil. marriage. is. A civil contract recognized by the state. And I feel like I'm repeating myself over and over again. This is a discussion of civil marriages recognized under the law. This is NOT a discussion about a union brought together by God. Sacramental marriage is a union brought together by God. Civil marriage, which is what we are discussing, is a union brought together by the state. That's why I don't understand why you keep bringing up holy matrimony and religious reasons. If you oppose secular gay marriage, you should have a legitimate secular reason. My whole point is that holy matrimony IS separate from civil marriage.
    No WE are not discussing any ďcivil marriageĒ and I am not in the mood for silly word games. I am saying a civil union is NOT a marriage and would not agree to have it recognized as such, period.

    My religious marriage ceremony could not be preformed for a certain amount of time (days) had passed for the state license to be recognized. My pastor could not perform the service until it was recognized by the state.

    In this day and age holy matrimony is NOT separate as you cannot have one without the other, period. It is illegal in every state, period.

    Quote Originally Posted by sweEt Mauritius View Post
    That doesn't make what right? Atheists getting married under secular law and receiving legal benefits?
    No. I said it is the way our system works as in secular, and we have to work within that legally.

    Quote Originally Posted by sweEt Mauritius View Post
    I'm honestly confused about what point you're trying to make. Having a legally recognized marriage by definition means you have a license from the state. There is a separation of church and state though because: 1) I can be legally married (with a license from the state) without proof of a religious marriage 2) I can receive sacramental marriage without being legally married (a fundamental Mormon wedding including more than two people could be a sacramental marriage without being recognized by the government with a separate civil marriage license). How can you argue against that?
    You cannot legally have a religious ceremony without the state license first. What part of this are you missing? I have repeated this 3 times and you keep making the same incorrect statement.

    The main point you are missing is that gay marriage or even gay sex is a sin. As a Christian I cannot sanction, condone or support the life style. A civil union is not a marriage, otherwise the term and legal definition of civil union would not exist.

    Civil Union:

    Civil unions are legal contracts between partners that are recognized by a state or government as conferring all or some of the rights conferred by marriage, but without the implicit historical and religious meaning associated with the word "marriage."

    In the United States, some states have legalized civil unions as an option for same-sex couples who cannot legally marry.

    Civil unions were once distinct from domestic partnerships, but the terms are now used more-or-less interchangeably.


    That should clear it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by sweEt Mauritius View Post
    By voting for laws that are drenched in your own religious values and morals, you are forcing people to comply with them. You seem to just ignore the fact that other people have different religious beliefs than you, and that they deserve as much respect as yours. You think something is wrong that other people may not agree. Other people may think something is wrong that you don't think are, and it would be unfair to you for them to vote those beliefs into law simply because THEY belief that it is right. An American Muslim who believes that women should wear veils may think women who don't are sinning, but in good conscience they should not vote for laws that force women to wear veils or face legal consequences. It's the same thing with your views.
    So what?

    The Muslim, Christian or atheist in our society is free to work within the system for changes they would like. This does not mean they will succeed, but it is the American way.

    Quote Originally Posted by sweEt Mauritius View Post
    Really? Because that exact right does exists in several nations, states, and municipalities around the world.
    Since when does the US Constitution not trump the laws of other countries in the US?

    This is not the rest of the world. So what they think is completely irrelevant on this issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by sweEt Mauritius View Post
    The fundamental problem I have with your arguments are that they seem to suggest that your views are the only correct ones and the only ones that deserve to be respected. When you say "don't tell me a same-sex couple is marriage, it's not," do you not understand that to other people, it is? It's not to you because, correct me if I'm wrong, your religion says it isn't. Well, there are churches where same-sex couples ARE in fact marriage, and there are Americans who DO view same-sex couples as marriage. Where are their rights? Your rights are not restricted if same-sex marriages are legalized. But other people's rights are restricted if they are banned.
    Your 4th paragraph is exactly the same question worded differently, and I have already answered it.



    Quote Originally Posted by sweEt Mauritius View Post
    Sorry, I must have lost it in the shuffle lol. I don't think prostitution should be illegal, in fact, because people have the freedom to do with their bodies what they like. There's no one else affected by that decision so it should be the person's decision if they choose to be a prostitute. My personal views, which are admittedly based in my religious upbringing, are that being a prostitute is a sinful occupation. But sinful by MY definition does not equal sinful to everyone, and it should not equal illegal for everyone.
    1 Corn 27-28: If an unbeliever invites you to dinner and you want to go, eat whatever is served without asking questions of conscience. But if someone says to you, ďThis is from a sacrifice,Ē do not eat, because of the one who told you and because of conscience.

    According to the God you say you worship, he would not agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by sweEt Mauritius View Post
    If they are coerced into prostitution that is different, but only because I have a problem with coercion. Polygamy within a religious context should be legal because of the separation of church and state.
    You mite want to read Corin 5 as well.

    So you would condone all that which is immoral and considered wrong by the God you worship?

    We are to respect the government, not condone that which we see as sinful.

    Quote Originally Posted by sweEt Mauritius View Post
    But there are serious legal obstacles in state recognition of a polygamist marriage. I mean, how would you work out things like child custody, inheritance, taxes, etc. if everyone in the union were to be treated equally, especially if there were no limit to the number of "spouses" able to enter into the union? People could create giant unions of millions of people. So I'm against legal polygamist marriage because I just honestly don't know how that would even be possible.
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Man View Post
    Because they practice unhealthy and perverted sexual practices, exclusively.
    Already debunked. Point negated.
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    The risk of oral/pharyngeal cancer comes from having certain strains of the hpv virus in one's mouth and throat.
    Unless one's partner is infected with the hpv virus, oral sex does not increase the risk of oral cancer.
    There's also herpes, HIV, gonorrhea, chlamydia, syphilis, hepatitis A, hepatitis B...

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
    But this comment of yours (about oral sex causing cancer) is not about homosexual relationships.

    It's about all relationships.

    Yet it seems to me you'd like to apply your point only to the discussion in regards to homosexuality.
    Oral and anal are what queers do; they can't have natural sex.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Except you seem to be confused about the nature of homosexual relationships, and of heterosexual ones.
    Not at all. I think that you're just frustrated to make a point here and can't, so resort to "you're confused".

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Except that your last three posts prove me right. All those diseases you list can be transmitted by strictly heterosexual sex. They have nothing to do with being gay. In fact, many gay sex practices(mutual masturbation, frotting and so on) are safer than traditional strait sex. Those things are what many "queers" do. This is why you appear to be confused on the subject. You do not seem to understand that "queers" do not adhere to your preconceived notions.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    SouthernMan - I believe you're off topic. The question is, should it be stopped. If people choose to act is risky ways that affect their health, so be it so long as it doesn't affect others. That's there freedom as a United States citizen. you can have unprotected sex with a woman and that can be very dangerous too. You can't illegalize these acts for that reason. So your point isn't a point on this topic.

    So the question is: do we have a right to stop them from marriage? Do we as a society have any reason to restrict their freedom to choose to marry someone of the same sex? I say what people choose to do in their lives is their choice. It won't affect my day-to-day living and it will make them happy. so why not?

    To those concerned with the religious aspect of marriage: I don't understand what you're worried about. If it goes against the religion, then they won't be married under that religion by definition. So... what's your point exactly? Religion defines marriage a certain way, yes. But that doesn't mean we can't change the definition of marriage in the government. seperation of church and state.

  10. #1020
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    No WE are not discussing any ďcivil marriageĒ and I am not in the mood for silly word games. I am saying a civil union is NOT a marriage and would not agree to have it recognized as such, period.

    My religious marriage ceremony could not be preformed for a certain amount of time (days) had passed for the state license to be recognized. My pastor could not perform the service until it was recognized by the state.

    In this day and age holy matrimony is NOT separate as you cannot have one without the other, period. It is illegal in every state, period.
    Example: Islam permits polygyny under certain circumstances. That is ILLEGAL under American CIVIL marriage laws, but itís permitted under Islamic RELIGIOUS marriage laws. And youíre telling me that a Muslim who has multiple wives under Islamic law (not American civil law) can be arrested because itís illegal in every state to practice your religious beliefs, including your religious beliefs about marriage??? Thatís blatantly false! And thatís because there is a separation of civil law and religious law in this country (meaning religious law has no bearing on civil law and vice versa). A man may have 4 recognized wives under ISLAMIC marriage law, but he can only have one recognized wife under CIVIL marriage law. Thatís the separation right there! How can you deny that again and again and again??


    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    You cannot legally have a religious ceremony without the state license first. What part of this are you missing? I have repeated this 3 times and you keep making the same incorrect statement.
    See my example about polygyny in Islam, which is proof that you CAN indeed have a religious ceremony without a state license first. Itís undeniable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    The main point you are missing is that gay marriage or even gay sex is a sin.
    Nope, Iím not missing that point. I completely disagree, in fact. Not like your definition of sinful should be injected into my laws anyway. Do you believe that sexual acts between consenting adults of the same sex should be legal? You would call it sinful, but do you deny that people have the personal freedom to do that in the privacy of their own homes if they are both consenting adults?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    As a Christian I cannot sanction, condone or support the life style. A civil union is not a marriage, otherwise the term and legal definition of civil union would not exist.

    Civil Union:

    Civil unions are legal contracts between partners that are recognized by a state or government as conferring all or some of the rights conferred by marriage, but without the implicit historical and religious meaning associated with the word "marriage."

    In the United States, some states have legalized civil unions as an option for same-sex couples who cannot legally marry.

    Civil unions were once distinct from domestic partnerships, but the terms are now used more-or-less interchangeably.


    That should clear it up.
    Thatís a fine definition, but it doesnít apply to states like Massachusetts. There is no legal definition for civil union there because they donít exist under the law and have never existed under the law.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    So what?

    The Muslim, Christian or atheist in our society is free to work within the system for changes they would like. This does not mean they will succeed, but it is the American way.
    If they did succeed, would you have a problem adhering to Islamic laws that you did not believe in, such as the rule about veils (pretending that you were a woman)? They are not your religious beliefs, but without a separation of church and state, people can impose their own beliefs on others who do not share them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Since when does the US Constitution not trump the laws of other countries in the US?

    This is not the rest of the world. So what they think is completely irrelevant on this issue.
    Fine, ignoring international municipalities, there are 5 states plus the District of Columbia that allow same-sex marriage. Additionally, 1 state (California) recognizes same-sex marriages that were performed there legally before Proposition 8 passed. Also, 3 states recognize same-sex marriages that were performed in other states. I know itís not at the federal level of the U.S. Constitution, but same-sex marriage is a right in several places within the U.S. at a state level.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    1 Corn 27-28: If an unbeliever invites you to dinner and you want to go, eat whatever is served without asking questions of conscience. But if someone says to you, ďThis is from a sacrifice,Ē do not eat, because of the one who told you and because of conscience.

    According to the God you say you worship, he would not agree.

    You mite want to read Corin 5 as well.

    So you would condone all that which is immoral and considered wrong by the God you worship?

    We are to respect the government, not condone that which we see as sinful.
    I donít need you to tell me what parts of the Bible to read or preach to me. I have my own religious beliefs and Iím quite content with them, thank you.

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