View Poll Results: Do you think it's immoral to settle your debt for a smaller amount?

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  • Yes, always.

    5 10.87%
  • No, never.

    18 39.13%
  • It depends on if you can afford to pay it or not.

    16 34.78%
  • Other

    7 15.22%
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Thread: Is settling your debt for a smaller amount immoral?

  1. #71
    Matthew 16:3

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    Re: Is settling your debt for a smaller amount immoral?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    I think I would have to know the details of the particular circumstances in order to discern what moral obligation exists, if any. Actually, I think that is essentially what you're saying as well, but adding that it is usually the case that there is something between individuals.
    Yeah. That's what I'm saying and that the only way a moral obligation can exist is when it is between individuals.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  2. #72
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    Re: Is settling your debt for a smaller amount immoral?

    Thanks for the other.
    Not all men have equal financial abilities and intelligence.
    Should they be thrown into the poor house for this?
    They are, of course, already living in poor conditions(mobile homes,row houses).People should at all times make honest effort to pay their debt and those who lent the money in the first place should accede to their responsibilities..
    This may fly in the face of those who hold "privacy" so dear.

  3. #73
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    Re: Is settling your debt for a smaller amount immoral?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post


    Let's look at my own situation for a moment. I bought a condo in 2005. I wasn't aware of what the banks were doing with subprime lending when I made this purchase (which is my fault. It is my duty to be informed of these things, and I have since rectified my ignorance).
    I disagree with you here that it was your responsibility to know what the banks were doing. How would you have found out? This information is not publicly available, after all. I would just point out that this is such a perfect example of a free market failure:

    If you had had access to perfect information, you would have very likely made a completely different decision. But, because you and countless others did not have access to this information, a bubble formed, directly due to the imperfect information.

    It is my view that one of the few moral imperatives in a free market system is this: That all parties to a transaction/agreement fully, actively and voluntarily disclose all information they know that pertains to the transaction/agreement.

    My reasoning is this: If you are going to be an advocate and participant in a free market system of economic exchange, it is your duty to see that it runs as efficiently and as prosperously as that system possibly can. People and entities (corporations) who seek to take advantage of imperfect distribution of information are causing the system that they claim to espouse to break down.

    So many people have the misguided notion that taking advantage of the imperfect distribution of information is an eminently capitalistic/free market activity. I differ with these people. I think it is entirely anti-capitalistic, anti-free market.

    I am well aware that I am probably in the minority. But, back to your specific situation:

    The banks sought to take advantage of this imperfect information, and you are not responsible for what you had no opportunity to have discovered. As I have indicated, the only ones with any moral failing in this situation are the banks.

    I think you can walk away with a clear conscience. I would certainly do so if the consequences on balance are in favor of it.

    They receive other consequences that are pre-set into the system. i.e. credit score damage, inability to get future loans, etc.

    Why is it OK to absolve the lenders of their CHOICE to make a stupid investment?
    This is spot on.

  4. #74
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    Re: Is settling your debt for a smaller amount immoral?

    Yes, I agree with Dezaad's point - you couldn't possibly have known who else they were giving loans to - and foresee the inevitable future.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

  5. #75
    Matthew 16:3

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    Re: Is settling your debt for a smaller amount immoral?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Yes, I agree with Dezaad's point - you couldn't possibly have known who else they were giving loans to - and foresee the inevitable future.
    I could have had more knowledge than I did, though. I was totally oblivious to the whole idea of sub-prime loans, when I could have been informed of their existence through research. Had I known that these types of loans were being given out, I would have definitely rethought the whole thing.

    I won't give myself a free pass since there were ways for me to learn about their existence through simple research on my part.

    But I never performed any research into things before I bought. Instead, I made many assumptions, all of which were incorrect.

    Thus, I firmly believe I was incorrect to make my decisions based on my ignorance.

    Now, I may very well have made the same decision if I had all of the information that was publicly available at the time or I might have made different decisions. I cannot say for sure whether I would have done things differently.

    What I can say for sure is that I know I didn't put forth enough effort to make myself informed.

    That alone means I can't shirk my own culpability in the matter. I didn't live up to an all-important obligation to myself which only I have control over: informing myself of every available fact before making major decisions and to never base my decisions upon assumptions and ignorance.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  6. #76
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    Re: Is settling your debt for a smaller amount immoral?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    No. Business deals are contractural agreements. Granted, lenders do rely on the moral and ethical standards of customers to help ensure the contract is fully lived up to, but the contractural agreement is contained on the piece of paper it's printed on.
    Interesting response. Frightening, but interesting.

  7. #77
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    Re: Is settling your debt for a smaller amount immoral?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Interesting response. Frightening, but interesting.
    what do you find frightening?
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  8. #78
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    Re: Is settling your debt for a smaller amount immoral?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    what do you find frightening?
    Ultimately it is because I believe that goodness is more important than commerce. (and yes, this is an entirely subjective opinion).

    Don't get me wrong though, I think commerce is very important since it is one of the engines of our society and our well-being, but I think its main use is to serve that well-being of our society as a whole, which it does a very good job at. And, it should be promoted as much as is reasonable for that purpose, at least until we can come up with something better that would serve people in a greater capacity.

    Ultimately, capitalism is a tool for the betterment of man though, but man is always more important than the tools.

    Again, entirely subjective opinion. I fear that if mistake our tools for our purpose, we will be able to more easily justify atrocity since it promotes the ideas of social darwinism.

  9. #79
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    Re: Is settling your debt for a smaller amount immoral?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    It depends. If the person is paying the actual debt and not ridicules interest rates, I don't see it as being out of line.
    I got in a situation where I owed 1,000. It quickly grew to 4,000 at 29% interest. They then let me make monthy payments at 5% I did so for a year and got it down to 2,000. Then hard times hit again and when a payment was missed it went back to 29%. Soon I owed 6,000 and it was still growing. I finally got it settled at 2,000. A very expensive 1,000 dollars. I didn't feel guilty about it. Oh yea, when you settle for less, you have to claim the difference as income on your taxes.
    I no longer use credit cards. It feels good being debt free!

  10. #80
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    Re: Is settling your debt for a smaller amount immoral?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Interesting response. Frightening, but interesting.
    Why is it frightening?
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

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