View Poll Results: Do you think it is ok to enter a country illegally?

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Thread: Do you think it is ok to enter a country illegally?

  1. #61
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    Re: Do you think it is ok to enter a country illegally?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    The problem is asylum laws are very selective. Cubans get to claim it but Haitians don't even though Haiti is far worse off than Cuba in ALL aspects. Salvadorians and Guatemalans got to claim it but Mexicans didn't even though they lived under a one party dictatorship for over 70 years. Our selective granting of asylum based on nationality is a serious issue.
    Then I guess they need to seek out countries where they can be granted asylum, huh? Just because they want it doesn't mean they actually deserve to get it.
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    Re: Do you think it is ok to enter a country illegally?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Then I guess they need to seek out countries where they can be granted asylum, huh? Just because they want it doesn't mean they actually deserve to get it.
    Your talk of seeking asylum was redundant to the conversation. Got it.
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  3. #63
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    Re: Do you think it is ok to enter a country illegally?

    Quote Originally Posted by stekim View Post
    I'm saying if it's a real struggle to support your family in East Berlin and it's far easier in West Berlin, jumping the wall makes total sense to me. The fact it's illegal means nothing to me because no one is being harmed.
    Then it is for convenience. The whole "no one being harmed" is clearly false. We have limited jobs in this country, we have limited numbers of teachers and health care professionals. Illegal immigrants use all of those limited resources.



    I know. But my opinion as to their general worth is entirely personal. They have every right to pass laws and I have every right to agree with them or not.
    But you do not have a right to violate those laws without expecting to be punished. You certainly have no right to expect amnesty for example.

    Some are. Some are not. In general, however, I agree that "laws are important".
    Hey, we agree on something. Those laws you don't like, you have to power to work to change them. It's much more constructive than just breaking the laws.



    How do you define that exactly? Is it breaking one law? 100 laws? "Important" laws? I don't know where the cutoff is for "not respecting" laws. I don't know anyone who hasn't broken any laws. Does that mean they don't respect laws in general? And how is that, in and of itself, bad? In other words, let's say I hate every law in America, but have not violated anyone else's life, liberty or property. Am I bad?
    I define it as knowing breaking and continuing to break the law. As an example on a different subject: if you oppose marijuana laws, there is nothing wrong with that. If you get high occasionally, it's not great, not bad. If you continue to get high, knowing it is illegal, you are a criminal. Respect for laws is important. Laws are the glue that holds society together. To answer your last question: if you break all those laws you disagree with, yes. You have shown a disregard for the society you live in.
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  4. #64
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    Re: Do you think it is ok to enter a country illegally?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    A million a year are issued. Why do you claim it's pretty slim?
    To work in America you need a WORK VISA. 80% of all Visas are visitor visas. You cannot work on that visa, you can merely get in.

    Thousands of Mexicans Wait Patiently for US Visa

    Last year, the State Department's 10 offices in Mexico issued 941,581 visas, more than twice as many as in any other country. Nearly 80 percent were temporary-visitor visas, issued to people who want to take a business trip, visit family, see the sights. They are good for 10 years.

    Temporary workers accounted for an additional 13 percent of visas. Those visas must be renewed more frequently.

    To be granted a visitor's visa, the most common type, applicants must prove they will return to Mexico. So applicants come armed with documents: bank statements, home deeds, car titles, pay stubs - anything to prove they have no intention of staying in the United States.

    Getting a work visa is even trickier: Applicants must have a job offer and be sponsored by an employer, and the number of visas allowed annually for unskilled laborers is usually used up within a few months.
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    Re: Do you think it is ok to enter a country illegally?

    Quote Originally Posted by redress
    I define it as knowing breaking and continuing to break the law. As an example on a different subject: if you oppose marijuana laws, there is nothing wrong with that. If you get high occasionally, it's not great, not bad. If you continue to get high, knowing it is illegal, you are a criminal. Respect for laws is important. Laws are the glue that holds society together. To answer your last question: if you break all those laws you disagree with, yes. You have shown a disregard for the society you live in.
    I suggest you never be in the same car as I am when it's 3am and I'm at a 4-way stop in the country.

  6. #66
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    Re: Do you think it is ok to enter a country illegally?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Then it is for convenience.
    Well, you simply have an odd definition of convenience. I don't consider moving from third cesspools to be a "convenience". And you wouldn't either.

    The whole "no one being harmed" is clearly false. We have limited jobs in this country, we have limited numbers of teachers and health care professionals. Illegal immigrants use all of those limited resources.
    You realize you just claimed that they create jobs, right? If they emigrate we need more teachers and more health care providers. We have 10% unemployment. You just helped the problem.

    But you do not have a right to violate those laws without expecting to be punished. You certainly have no right to expect amnesty for example.
    Never said I did.

    Hey, we agree on something. Those laws you don't like, you have to power to work to change them. It's much more constructive than just breaking the laws.
    I agree. In practice, however, I tend to do both at the same time!


    To answer your last question: if you break all those laws you disagree with, yes. You have shown a disregard for the society you live in.
    Actually, we just disagree on what "disregard for society" is. To me it's as simple as violating the life, liberty or property of an innocent person. If you refrain from doing that I think you are doing society a pretty good favor regardless of whether you broke some laws. Likewise, you can follow the law and cause real harm to people (eh, Wall Street).
    Last edited by stekim; 04-27-10 at 04:13 PM.
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    Re: Do you think it is ok to enter a country illegally?

    Quote Originally Posted by stekim View Post
    To work in America you need a WORK VISA. 80% of all Visas are visitor visas. You cannot work on that visa, you can merely get in.

    Thousands of Mexicans Wait Patiently for US Visa
    The million a year I mentioned are the number of legal immigrants granted legal status. The temp visas you are talking about are non-immigrant visas.

    And, the restriction on the numbers allowed in are there for a reason. People who don't respect that only hurt the country and the people in it. Not to mention spit in the face of the millions of LEGAL immigrants that come here doing it the right way.

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    Re: Do you think it is ok to enter a country illegally?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat
    And, the restriction on the numbers allowed in are there for a reason. People who don't respect that only hurt the country and the people in it. Not to mention spit in the face of the millions of LEGAL immigrants that come here doing it the right way.
    I don't think they view it that way. Were it so, you could just call the INS to herd up all the people at a random immigrant/protest rally in Arizona since the declaration of this bill. I'd be willing to bet money that a good chunk, if not most, of the people demonstrating are Mexicans that are here legally. Those Latino people are known for intense amounts of pride, and they'd stand by their brethren more than their desire to give you a cut-rate discount on your landscaping needs.

    They don't see it as hurting their people who are here legally. They see it as a hurdle blocking the eventual takeover of the southwestern United States back under the flag of the red, white, and green.

  9. #69
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    Re: Do you think it is ok to enter a country illegally?

    Quote Originally Posted by stekim View Post
    Because those are stealing. Duh. If people are crossing the border to steal then I oppose it.
    Since everything they get here, is not theirs, from a free education, to free hospitalization, then that is stealing.
    And that includes the cost of incarceration when they steal my big screen TV.
    Last edited by Skateguy; 04-27-10 at 04:25 PM.
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    Re: Do you think it is ok to enter a country illegally?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    I don't think they view it that way. Were it so, you could just call the INS to herd up all the people at a random immigrant/protest rally in Arizona since the declaration of this bill. I'd be willing to bet money that a good chunk, if not most, of the people demonstrating are Mexicans that are here legally. Those Latino people are known for intense amounts of pride, and they'd stand by their brethren more than their desire to give you a cut-rate discount on your landscaping needs.

    They don't see it as hurting their people who are here legally. They see it as a hurdle blocking the eventual takeover of the southwestern United States back under the flag of the red, white, and green.
    Not all immigrants are hispanic. (though the majority are)

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