View Poll Results: Should a divorce court be able to forbid one parent to take a child to church?

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  • Yes they should be able to favor one religion in a divorce dispute

    13 20.00%
  • Each parent should be allowed to expose the child to their respective faiths

    26 40.00%
  • The court should butt out of disputes of a religious nature

    18 27.69%
  • The parents should have thought of this ahead of time.

    4 6.15%
  • Other, please explain

    4 6.15%
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Thread: Should a divorce court be able to forbid one parent to take a child to church?

  1. #41
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    Re: Should a divorce court be able to forbid one parent to take a child to church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    How well he understands is everything.

    And I don't understand the second part of this post.
    Show me someone who understands these things perfectly. I certainly don't and I learn new things every day. All anyone can do is make the best decision they can given what facts they know, their experiences, and their influences. It is no different between an adult and a child.

    The second part was me saying that I think I read into your post a bit because it is past midnight here and I am sleepy.

  2. #42
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    Re: Should a divorce court be able to forbid one parent to take a child to church?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Well your opinion of its validity is not important. It has happened. Personally, I figure he is going to change his mind several times as he gets older. We all do. However, as it is right now, he is very committed to his belief.
    Heh. I'm just dumbfounded that you're speaking about a FIVE YEAR OLD like this. He's FIVE. A kindergartner. He can barely read a book by himself (I'm assuming) and you think he's mature enough to be "very committed" to a spiritual belief???? Ridiculous. The only thing kindergartners are "very committed" to is watching as many cartoons as possible.


  3. #43
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    Re: Should a divorce court be able to forbid one parent to take a child to church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    Heh. I'm just dumbfounded that you're speaking about a FIVE YEAR OLD like this. He's FIVE. A kindergartner. He can barely read a book by himself (I'm assuming) and you think he's mature enough to be "very committed" to a spiritual belief???? Ridiculous. The only thing kindergartners are "very committed" to is watching as many cartoons as possible.


    He is an opinionated child who feels strongly about everything, whether he understands it or not. That is just his personality.

  4. #44
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    Re: Should a divorce court be able to forbid one parent to take a child to church?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post


    He is an opinionated child who feels strongly about everything, whether he understands it or not. That is just his personality.
    So you agree that he doesn't understand it at all. Good. Why would you say your child is an atheist when you know he doesn't understand what he's saying?


  5. #45
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    Re: Should a divorce court be able to forbid one parent to take a child to church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    So you agree that he doesn't understand it at all. Good. Why would you say your child is an atheist when you know he doesn't understand what he's saying?
    You misunderstood my post. He has an opinion on everything, regardless of understanding it. For example, he very strongly that leather comes from chickens and so far I have not been able to sway that belief, despite some youtube videos. He doesn't understand all the facts, but he has an opinion.

    He understands the difference between something being real and imaginary and whether something exists or not. So, he has the basic concepts down. Also, I think he will likely change his opinion as he grows and different regions of his brain become more mature and he is able to use more adult modes of thought. His ultimate opinion might stay the same, but the reasons behind it might change. Another alternative is that his opinion might change.

    However, all of that is also irrelevant. Right now he has a strong opinion, justified or not. He has made a choice, well thought out or not.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 04-25-10 at 02:43 AM.

  6. #46
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    Re: Should a divorce court be able to forbid one parent to take a child to church?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    You misunderstood my post. He has an opinion on everything, regardless of understanding it. For example, he very strongly that leather comes from chickens and so far I have not been able to sway that belief, despite some youtube videos. He doesn't understand all the facts, but he has an opinion.

    He understands the difference between something being real and imaginary and whether something exists or not. So, he has the basic concepts down.
    I understand you perfectly. I'm a teacher. I know how kids think. You admitted that he doesn't understand spiritual concepts, yet you say that your child is an atheist. That makes no sense. If he doesn't understand it, why would you put that label on him?


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    Re: Should a divorce court be able to forbid one parent to take a child to church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    I understand you perfectly. I'm a teacher. I know how kids think. You admitted that he doesn't understand spiritual concepts, yet you say that your child is an atheist. That makes no sense. If he doesn't understand it, why would you put that label on him?
    He does not think there is a deity. Therefore he is an atheist.

    I have asked him what God was and he replied "the person who made everything around me." So he does have a concept of a deity.

    Again, as I have stated, it is my belief that he bases his opinion on what I would consider to be childish reasons and his brain is not fully mature. When he informed me of his thoughts, I was astounded myself and I did ask him some probing questions. However, I am pretty convinced he understands the basics well enough that I can label him.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 04-25-10 at 02:57 AM.

  8. #48
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    Re: Should a divorce court be able to forbid one parent to take a child to church?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    It's probably more that she hates her ex, and it's a way to be spiteful to him.
    Quote Originally Posted by MyOwnDrum View Post
    And he was probably sticking it to her by getting the girl baptized...
    According to the article...

    The couple married in 2004. Joseph Reyes was Catholic, but he converted to Judaism to please his in-laws. He has said the decision wasn't "voluntary." Despite his conversion, Reyes, 35, said he never stopped practicing Catholicism.

    When the marriage fell apart, Rebecca Reyes, 34, got custody of their daughter. The girl, now 3, has been raised Jewish and attended a Jewish preschool. Her father decided to baptize his daughter without consulting his wife.
    Seems to me that the Catholic father acknowledged his daughter as Jewish and fully acquiesced in regards to her religious upbringing. It doesn’t reflect very well on him that his daughter’s religion became contentious only after he lost parental custody.

    Although the article does not specifically mention a time-frame, it would seem to me that the husband converted to Judaism in order to marry Rebecca. I would imagine that Rebecca (and her family) insisted on this in order to validate and solidify a preference for traditional Jewish law in regards to marriage and family matters. In other words, dad tacitly acknowledged that any offspring would be considered Jewish in all matters regarding faith.

    Although I believe he has the legal right to introduce his daughter to Catholicism, I also think his motive is perhaps underhanded and born of spite. Rebecca should also probably have insisted on a pre-nuptial legal contract with heavy breachment penalties.

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    Re: Should a divorce court be able to forbid one parent to take a child to church?

    Quote Originally Posted by MyOwnDrum View Post
    What's your opinion? Here's the story:

    Divorce Battle: Joseph Reyes Pleads Not Guilty For Taking Daughter to Church - ABC News

    The parents are getting divorced and the wife is Jewish, the husband Catholic. The mother wants the child raised Jewish, the husband, not previously devout, got the little girl baptized, the mother got a restraining order, yada yada...
    If you had taken the time to read the full article you linked, you would have realized it was old, and that the case has already been ruled on. A simple 30 second google search yields this: Joseph Reyes Can Take Jewish Daughter To Catholic Church, Judge Rules In Dad's Favor

    A high-profile divorce case was resolved by a Cook County judge Tuesday, as a man who claims he returned to his Catholic roots after divorcing a Jewish woman was granted permission to take his 3-year-old daughter to Catholic church, despite his ex-wife's wishes.

    Joseph Reyes, who baptized his 3-year-old daughter without her mother's permission, faced jail time after a Cook County judge granted his ex a temporary restraining order barring him from exposing the child to any religion other than Judaism.

    But on Tuesday, Cook County Judge Renee Goldfarb said Reyes can take his daughter to "church services during his visitation time if he so chooses," she wrote in the divorce decree. "This court will also order that Joseph have visitation with Ela every year on Christmas and Easter." The Chicago Sun-Times reports:
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  10. #50
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    Re: Should a divorce court be able to forbid one parent to take a child to church?

    But on Tuesday, Cook County Judge Renee Goldfarb said Reyes can take his daughter to "church services during his visitation time if he so chooses," she wrote in the divorce decree. "This court will also order that Joseph have visitation with Ela every year on Christmas and Easter." The Chicago Sun-Times reports
    Irony! Settled by a Jewish judge

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