View Poll Results: Does hard work always lead to a higher income?

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  • yes

    5 5.68%
  • no

    83 94.32%
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Thread: Does hard work always lead to a higher income

  1. #81
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    Re: Does hard work always lead to a higher income

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    "Harder"? In what way, mentally as compared to physically? You think practicing law/medicine/engineering is "harder" than shoveling dirt?
    Yes, that's a very important point.

    I've done manual labor, and I've done cushy office work, and I don't know how the guys who do the manual labor every day keep at it.

  2. #82
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    Re: Does hard work always lead to a higher income

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    I'm glad you think so because I was mocking the cons mantra, ergo, the sarcastic eye roll.
    How come you never mock the libs?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Does hard work always lead to a higher income

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Assume
    ass*u*me
    Farmers are very hard workers, they must be.
    The Amish are prime examples.
    But to those who "think" or ass*u*me that those poor people that they see are lazy....... I'd take for neighbors any day the poor people over the holier than thou snobs....
    Laziness strikes all , I wish I knew why..
    Looks to me that you're doing the assuming. No one said poor people are lazy, the OP only made an assumption that some think that.
    Last edited by American; 04-28-10 at 01:07 PM.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  4. #84
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    Re: Does hard work always lead to a higher income

    The lack of hard work will very likely lead to a low income.....
    Oracle of Utah
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    Re: Does hard work always lead to a higher income

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    The lack of hard work will very likely lead to a low income.....
    Depends on where you start. If you're born into money, lack of hard work will probably have no effect. If you're born into regular society, then yes you're dooming yourself to low income.
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    Re: Does hard work always lead to a higher income

    For the record I mostly agree with Dig's comment.

    in regards to the always:

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I think the word always is an important piece of this question. If the assumption is that higher income people work harder than lower income people than hard work should lead to a higher income.
    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    That doesn't address the question, which is about hard work. In a sense what I am really asking is that is everyone that is poor in that situation because they are lazy?
    See, this is a setup and pure and simple trap by you mega.

    You are taking one thing which is NOT stated as an "always" case by most people (You don't find many republicans saying those who are poor are ALWAYS also lazy or ALWAYS beause they're lazy) and then trying to counter it by putting forth a completely different situation by inserting the ALWAYS.

    The argument is not that ANYONE who is poor has to be so because they're lazy. The argument is there is oppertunity and potential for anyone to do well and improve their lot in life if they make an effort to do so in their lives.

    Now sometimes that effort may be difficult, not in just a physical manner but in regards to comfort, sacrifice, etc.

    Sometimes the oppertunties are made much more difficult and maybe even closer to impossible because someone repeatedly passed on them throughout life (Such as someone who didn't take primary education seriously, didn't bother going to secondary education, didn't take advantage of any work place training programs, and then is 40 and realizes "I need to do more with my life then being a menial retail clerk" or something of the like).

    Sometimes yes, bad luck can strike or unfortunante circumstances can befall you. That can cut both ways though.

    But ultimately everyone has the ability in some way, shape, or form to improve themselves and strive for something better. Someone who is just working for a bit over minimum wage at McDonalds could still "work hard" at that job and it may only get him miniscule wages over the time. But that's because he's choosing to focus his hard work there rather than potentially make some sacrifices or some extreme efforts to use that hard work and focus at bettering himself to give him an oppertunity to get a better job.

    Just "working hard" as a generic term that could applied to anything does not garauntee you nor mean you should get any great advancement in life. Its also not generally the conservative argument.

    You're beating up on a strawman with a dishonest, transparent, hacky poll question trying to "disprove" a notion by asking a question that doesn't correlate to it in the slightest.

    Do people who work hard ALWAYS improve their lot in life? No. Do people who work hard at improving their lot in life often have a chance to improve their life? Yes.

    Those who resign themselves to mediocrity or poverty, even if they work really really hard at being mediocre or at their job keeping them in poverty, are going to remain in that state. But nothing is stopping them from refusing to accept that as their fate and focusing their efforts and will towards improving themselves rather than simply working hard at what they are.

  7. #87
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    Re: Does hard work always lead to a higher income

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Yes, that's a very important point.

    I've done manual labor, and I've done cushy office work, and I don't know how the guys who do the manual labor every day keep at it.
    Harder when talking in the sense of jobs is a multifaceted word.

    Sure, physicality can play into it. One could say the ditch digger has a harder job than the janitor but the pro-football player has the harder job than either because the physical demands are so great.

    Physicality. Hours. Time it takes to even learn the skills for the job. The difficulty, possibly in time/money/intelligence/experience, to get into the position. The stress said position places upon you. The intelligence needed. The risk associated with it both financially and physically.

    All these things play into it.

    Physically, a ditch digger on any particular day is working far harder than a brain surgeon.

    When comparing the two however in a more overall view, the Brain Surgeon sacrifices likely 10 years of his life to study and score high enough to continue his education, all the while putting himself in large amount of debt. To then have to do a job that daily requires him to recall multitude of in depth and high level information learned over multiple years in which peoples lives can literally, directly, hang in very balance of his hands. To have dealt with years of extremely long hours, little sleep, and the knowledge that any mistake could potentially cost him not just his job but his financial security. With all that, yeah, I could say that a Brain Surgeon that is doing his job as exemplary as a Ditch Digger is doing his job is works harder than said ditch digger in an overall sense. Not physically, but over all definitely.

  8. #88
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    Re: Does hard work always lead to a higher income

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Yes, that's a very important point.
    I've done manual labor, and I've done cushy office work, and I don't know how the guys who do the manual labor every day keep at it.
    If I hand you a shovel, you are saying you can't dig a hole?
    Hand you a scalpel, can you do bypass surgery?

    Neither you nor Jingo have an important point. You're not slow, how could you even float that idea?

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    Re: Does hard work always lead to a higher income

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    The lack of hard work will very likely lead to a low income.....
    Not necessarily. Some people never work a day in their life and do just fine. They are born into money or marry into it.

  10. #90
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    Re: Does hard work always lead to a higher income

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    If I hand you a shovel, you are saying you can't dig a hole?
    Hand you a scalpel, can you do bypass surgery?

    Neither you nor Jingo have an important point. You're not slow, how could you even float that idea?
    This is about the meaning of the word "hard" in this context. Our point is perfectly sensible. Don't get all worked up about it, okay?

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