View Poll Results: Does hard work always lead to a higher income?

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  • yes

    5 5.68%
  • no

    83 94.32%
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Thread: Does hard work always lead to a higher income

  1. #71
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    Re: Does hard work always lead to a higher income

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Jefferson Davis?
    Nope, Groucho Marx...

  2. #72
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    Re: Does hard work always lead to a higher income

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    OK, then I also disagree with your split. I believe luck has more to do with success than hard work.

    "I'd rather have luck than skill anyday" - Gen Chuck Yeager

    I concur!

    I disagree.

    In my experience I've met far more people who began with native talent, than those who ended with success. From what I've seen the difference lay in seeking to reach the pinnacle of one's potential, maximizing strengths and strengthening weaknesses, hard work, the courage to seek opportunities... and various other things that were more a matter of choice and action that of luck.

    Obviously we aren't going to see eye to eye here.

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  3. #73
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    Re: Does hard work always lead to a higher income

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Jefferson Davis?
    Karl Marx. However, the same would be true with Jefferson Davis as well.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  4. #74
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    Re: Does hard work always lead to a higher income

    In a sense what I am really asking is that is everyone that is poor in that situation because they are lazy?
    This may come as a surprise to you but that's not what your poll was.

    Even then, the word "everyone" makes it just as pointless. Use better wording, with more options, and you'll likely get more of the information you're looking for.

    All else equal, same job, same potential, yes, on average you are far more likely to obtain a higher income, via hard work. You can game the system by acting like you work hard, but it carries risk, and depends on co-workers/transparency. In generaly, yes, the harder you work all else equal, the more you make.

    However, you can also work hard at planning your income path, and work less, and make more, than someone who didn't work hard at planning their income/career. Somehow hard work seems to keep popping up.

  5. #75
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    Re: Does hard work always lead to a higher income

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    If you work so hard as to become irreplaceable at what you do, you'll never move up for that very reason.

    It's the yes men that golf with the boss and let him win that have a bright future in the company.
    This is sad but true.
    But I 'd think this would be changing, if the companies wish to be successful. And one should have the ability to play politics, its part of survival.
    Hard work at the job also includes improving oneself....which I never really did, as an auto mechanic...

  6. #76
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    Re: Does hard work always lead to a higher income

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Thank you and Megaprogman for addressing this. I was thinking about starting a new thread on this very issue a couple days ago.

    We need to distinguish between the "Working Poor", who typically work very hard indeed, and the Welfare Class, who often ARE Lazy.

    There is a world of difference between the two. I've spent a lot of time around both types of people, and I've been "working class poor" during many periods of my life.

    Working class poor people generally work very hard indeed. Typically their lack of any great income is due to a lack of higher education or other marketable skills that would lead to higher income. Often their background is such that they are unable to present themselves with a "middle-class social mannerism" to a prospective employer, and that does make a difference in whether you can get a chance at a job in say, sales, instead of working on the loading dock.

    Some have the capacity to do better-paying jobs, but there are circumstances in their life that hold them back. Sales is an avenue where a person of modest education but good social skills and some brains can make good money; a lot of people find sales jobs, however, to be stressful; income is often commission-based and variables beyond your control can really make that a roller-coaster ride. Others have limitations imposed by family obligations, such as a need to stay close to home for the sake of one or more family members (no traveling jobs).

    Welfare Poor, that's another kettle of fish entirely. I know these folks pretty well too; I have relatives who qualify. Yes, there are a few who are on welfare because of circumstances largely beyond their control; but the majority are on welfare as a direct result of very bad choices they made in life, or (here we go) yes, sheer laziness.

    I'll bet that half the thieves and drug dealers I've known were also on the welfare roll, or else had their live-in woman on welfare.

    Not to say they're all bad people, some of them are decent folk overall. Some of them are mentally below average and really do have a hard time keeping a job and keeping their finances halfway straight. Some have actual mental problems that they were born with and are thus not their fault.

    All in all though, a large number of them are on welfare because they're either lazy, druggies, drunks, or otherwise have made a lot of bad choices and continue to make bad choices in life.

    The "Working Poor" have my respect and sympathy.

    Most of the Welfare Poor do not.

    G.
    The, the welfare class are in need of sympathy, understanding, compassion,respect, just as all others are....even more so...
    Many of the welfare receivers are simply not very bright, cannot even push a broom....., which is a thing of the past anyway...
    This "lazy" thing - I do not buy.
    The problem is much more complex, wish I had an answer..

  7. #77
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    Re: Does hard work always lead to a higher income

    Lazy or not is irrelevant in the primary argument.
    The primary argument has nothing to do with how hard people work, it has to do with wealth redistribution.

    Use your own example.
    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    However, at the textile mill I work at, I know plenty of people who work hard for the sake of working hard and never aspire to even being a supervisor. Many only make 10 or 11 an hour, but they tend to be happy people.
    So these textile mill workers, who are:
    1. happy to work 10-11 hours at their wage level
    2. choose not to become supervisors which carries higher pay

    So they didn't choose to work for more, according to you. So why would the person who does choose to be supervisor, have to give some of their money to the rest of the people who chose not to take on a similar supervisor position? Isn't that the real question?

    Laziness and income are then entirely irrelevant. No one would give a crap what the correlation was, if you were not redistributing wealth in the first place, then everyone is presumably choosing to do what makes them happy....be it a care-free minimum wage job, or a doctor.
    Last edited by Mach; 04-27-10 at 06:30 PM.

  8. #78
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    Re: Does hard work always lead to a higher income

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    That's extremely narrow minded and intolerant.
    I'm glad you think so because I was mocking the cons mantra, ergo, the sarcastic eye roll.

  9. #79
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    Re: Does hard work always lead to a higher income

    Quote Originally Posted by 1984 View Post
    Engineering, medicine, law, etc. are far harder than any job which pays crap.
    "Harder"? In what way, mentally as compared to physically? You think practicing law/medicine/engineering is "harder" than shoveling dirt?

  10. #80
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    Re: Does hard work always lead to a higher income

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Does hard work always lead to a higher income?

    The reason I ask this is that I see a lot of people assuming that people with a low income are lazy.
    If you're on welfare or are an elected official, you don't have to work. Just vote yourself a salary.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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