View Poll Results: Does hard work always lead to a higher income?

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  • yes

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Thread: Does hard work always lead to a higher income

  1. #31
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    Re: Does hard work always lead to a higher income

    I think the ability to plan for the future and carry out that plan is a very large factor. Many poor people seem to have less ability in that area. Successful people often combine hard work with other abilities. Poor people may work very hard, but often live day to day and depend on others in society to plan for the future.

  2. #32
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    Re: Does hard work always lead to a higher income

    Quote Originally Posted by MyOwnDrum View Post
    Not all hard work leads to economic success. There are many factors that also contribute to it, such as intelligence, discernment, opportunity, economics, social skills, timing, luck, fate, education, family ties, accidents of birth, etc etc
    All of that falls under the category of, luck.

  3. #33
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    Re: Does hard work always lead to a higher income

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    All of that falls under the category of, luck.
    Intelligence comes about by luck?

    Education comes about by luck?

    Odd.


  4. #34
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    Re: Does hard work always lead to a higher income

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    All of that falls under the category of, luck.
    People have free will that they can exercise, I believe. People can improve some of those categories by choice.

    I agree, though. Some people are born with more characteristics that will lead to success. And some are born into circumstances that stack the odds against them.

    There's the nature vs nurture angle, and the free will vs predestination debate.

  5. #35
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    Re: Does hard work always lead to a higher income

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    So then why do cons automatically go straight to "lazy" when talking about poor people? Doesn't the fact that you have to answer "no" to the poll prove that the bull**** about working hard and getting ahead is just that? There is also luck which seems to be a bigger factor than working hard.

    Thank you and Megaprogman for addressing this. I was thinking about starting a new thread on this very issue a couple days ago.

    We need to distinguish between the "Working Poor", who typically work very hard indeed, and the Welfare Class, who often ARE Lazy.

    There is a world of difference between the two. I've spent a lot of time around both types of people, and I've been "working class poor" during many periods of my life.

    Working class poor people generally work very hard indeed. Typically their lack of any great income is due to a lack of higher education or other marketable skills that would lead to higher income. Often their background is such that they are unable to present themselves with a "middle-class social mannerism" to a prospective employer, and that does make a difference in whether you can get a chance at a job in say, sales, instead of working on the loading dock.

    Some have the capacity to do better-paying jobs, but there are circumstances in their life that hold them back. Sales is an avenue where a person of modest education but good social skills and some brains can make good money; a lot of people find sales jobs, however, to be stressful; income is often commission-based and variables beyond your control can really make that a roller-coaster ride. Others have limitations imposed by family obligations, such as a need to stay close to home for the sake of one or more family members (no travelling jobs).

    Welfare Poor, that's another kettle of fish entirely. I know these folks pretty well too; I have relatives who qualify. Yes, there are a few who are on welfare because of circumstances largely beyond their control; but the majority are on welfare as a direct result of very bad choices they made in life, or (here we go) yes, sheer laziness.

    I'll bet that half the thieves and drug dealers I've known were also on the welfare roll, or else had their live-in woman on welfare.

    Not to say they're all bad people, some of them are decent folk overall. Some of them are mentally below average and really do have a hard time keeping a job and keeping their finances halfway straight. Some have actual mental problems that they were born with and are thus not their fault.

    All in all though, a large number of them are on welfare because they're either lazy, druggies, drunks, or otherwise have made a lot of bad choices and continue to make bad choices in life.

    The "Working Poor" have my respect and sympathy.

    Most of the Welfare Poor do not.

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  6. #36
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    Re: Does hard work always lead to a higher income

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    Intelligence comes about by luck?

    Education comes about by luck?

    Odd.

    There's a lot of debate on this matter among professionals in the related scientific fields. I'm not going to address that angle as it isn't my balliwick.

    Instead I'll just talk about what experience has shown me.

    Yes, some people are born smarter than most, and some are born dim. Genetics.

    Some people have an upbringing that maximizes their ability to USE the raw intelligence they were born with; others don't.

    Some people work at expanding their minds and their knowlege base; some don't, or never learned how. Some learn from experience, some don't.

    Education... well, a lot of people get higher education because their parents can afford it. Some can swing a scholarship of some kind, some can get grants or loans. Some have trouble getting either. Also, frankly not everyone is suited to higher education and would be better off going to trade school or an apprenticeship program if one can be found.

    Some of it could be categorized as "luck", but there is always the question of what you DO with the hand your were dealt.

    I compare it to Poker. You are dealt a hand, but what you do with it will have a lot to do with the final outcome. You can draw and try to arrainge your cards to the best effect, or you can just whine and moan because you didn't come up all Aces.

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  7. #37
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    Re: Does hard work always lead to a higher income

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Does hard work always lead to a higher income?
    Always? No. Has someone said it does?
    It is, however, far more likely to do so than being lazy.

  8. #38
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    Re: Does hard work always lead to a higher income

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    So then why do cons automatically go straight to "lazy" when talking about poor people? Doesn't the fact that you have to answer "no" to the poll prove that the bull**** about working hard and getting ahead is just that? There is also luck which seems to be a bigger factor than working hard.
    It takes a lot more than just working to get to earn a better life style.
    If you make $100k a year but spend all your money on porn and beer, you're going to be poor.

    There are many factors that going into being not lazy with your life, work is but one of those factors.

    I don't believe in luck, coincidence maybe but luck is generally used by people(not you) who make excuses for others good decisions.
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 04-24-10 at 02:36 PM.
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  9. #39
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    Re: Does hard work always lead to a higher income

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    Intelligence comes about by luck?

    Education comes about by luck?

    Odd.
    Very much so. You don't have any choice in your natural mental abilities or capacities. Sure you can become smarter but intelligence is an attribute just like athleticism. Luck.

    If you are born in... Detroit, Mi, for example, your education is certainly less effective than the education you'd receive in... Novato, CA.

    You don't get to decide where you go to school. Luck.

  10. #40
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    Re: Does hard work always lead to a higher income

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    Very much so. You don't have any choice in your natural mental abilities or capacities. Sure you can become smarter but intelligence is an attribute just like athleticism. Luck.
    Superior athletes are typically found when native talent meets hard work, sweat and discipline.

    You can have tons of natural talent, but if you don't work to develop it to the max, you will not reach the top of your field or even go very far in it.

    Intelligence is similar. You're born with a certain upper limit, but reaching whatever your maximum potential may be, is up to you.

    If you are born in... Detroit, Mi, for example, your education is certainly less effective than the education you'd receive in... Novato, CA.

    You don't get to decide where you go to school. Luck.
    Um...huh?

    I know lots of parents, including working-poor parents, who make an effort to find out the quality of the local school district before buying or renting a house, and it factors into their decision.

    Many parents, if they can afford it, send their kids to private schools. (Vouchers anyone?)

    Not so much luck, as a continuation of whatever the family's habits/traditions on education of their children might be.

    Then there's the matter of how much you get out of school, being related to how much you put in. Yeah, "luck" (or factors beyond your control, to be more precise) is a factor, but a good bit of it IS up to you.

    Then there is college, which is really where you make or break your educational level... and people do choose where they go to college to a large degree.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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