View Poll Results: Should the Federal Government push food processors into lowering salt content?

Voters
63. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, this is for the common good.

    14 22.22%
  • Warning labels and a public awareness campaign should be enough

    12 19.05%
  • Government managed healthcare gives them a vested interest in this

    1 1.59%
  • Processed food is so darned salty, I won't protest

    3 4.76%
  • As long as it's legal for folks to add more salt, I'm okay with it

    5 7.94%
  • The government is trying to micromanage our lives! No, this is ridiculous!

    22 34.92%
  • Other, please explain

    6 9.52%
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Thread: Should the Federal Government push food processors into lowering salt content?

  1. #21
    Student Yossarian's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Federal Government push food processors into lowering salt content?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    sure it does


    anytime the federal government acts in a way that uses our tax dollars for a purpose not within its delegated powers, my freedom is diminished.

    Non sequitur. Your statement does not account for unconstitutional activities that would arguably increase individual freedom. Like, say, if a bill that banned income tax was passed (not that I'm saying this would ever happen).

    A reduction in individual choice is a reduction in freedom. In the present case, no such reduction will occur.
    Last edited by Yossarian; 04-20-10 at 10:43 PM.

  2. #22
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Should the Federal Government push food processors into lowering salt content?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    Non sequitur. Your statement does not account for unconstitutional activities that would arguably increase individual freedom. Like, say, if a bill that banned income tax was passed (not that I'm saying this would ever happen).

    A reduction in individual choice is a reduction in freedom. In the present case, no such reduction will occur.
    that wouldn't be unconstitutional. I don't think an australian is really in a position to argue what our constitution means. And I disagree with you

    what sort of unconstitutional activity increases freedom

    I am all ears.



  3. #23
    Student Yossarian's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Federal Government push food processors into lowering salt content?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that wouldn't be unconstitutional. I don't think an australian is really in a position to argue what our constitution means. And I disagree with you
    I think in all fairness it is true that my knowledge of the Constitution is probably not that great compared to many on this forum. But nevertheless. The 16th Amendment, which is the section I was relying on for that argument, does not stipulate the income taxes MUST be collected by the government, though it does imply that to not collect them would be abnormal procedure.

    Anyway, I do not wish to be drawn into a complex debate over these issues. The point is that your previous statement that any regulatory initiative impairs personal freedom does not follow if more objective qualifications regarding freedom (i.e. the level of personal choice) remain unviolated.

    The regulation being discussed in this thread does not hinder personal choice of individual citizens and hence, regardless of whether or not it is constitutional (which I am not interested in debating) it does not diminish personal freedom.

  4. #24
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Should the Federal Government push food processors into lowering salt content?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    I think in all fairness it is true that my knowledge of the Constitution is probably not that great compared to many on this forum. But nevertheless. The 16th Amendment, which is the section I was relying on for that argument, does not stipulate the income taxes MUST be collected by the government, though it does imply that to not collect them would be abnormal procedure.

    Anyway, I do not wish to be drawn into a complex debate over these issues. The point is that your previous statement that any regulatory initiative impairs personal freedom does not follow if more objective qualifications regarding freedom (i.e. the level of personal choice) remain unviolated.

    The regulation being discussed in this thread does not hinder personal choice of individual citizens and hence, regardless of whether or not it is constitutional (which I am not interested in debating) it does not diminish personal freedom.

    a ban on cigarettes might increase public health but it also diminishes personal freedom. I have never smoked and don't need a government ban to save me from myself. A ban on junk food might keep the weak minded from becoming as obese as they are now but it diminishes my right to eat what I want.



  5. #25
    Student Yossarian's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Federal Government push food processors into lowering salt content?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    a ban on cigarettes might increase public health but it also diminishes personal freedom. I have never smoked and don't need a government ban to save me from myself. A ban on junk food might keep the weak minded from becoming as obese as they are now but it diminishes my right to eat what I want.
    The cigarette example is distinct, and I'm surprised that you don't realise how.

    A ban on cigarettes affects individual freedom by demarcating activities that individuals cannot participate in. The regulations concerning salt do no such thing and they are a far cry from 'banning junk food.' Essentially, all it would mean is that your Big Mac would now be required to contain a lower level of salt.

    Does individual choice suffer? No. The same range of food will be available, but it will just contain less salt overall. Furthermore, I assume people are still perfectly capable of adding more salt to their foods by themselves if they really want to.

    Ergo, no loss of freedom, only salt.

  6. #26
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    Re: Should the Federal Government push food processors into lowering salt content?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    The cigarette example is distinct, and I'm surprised that you don't realise how.

    A ban on cigarettes affects individual freedom by demarcating activities that individuals cannot participate in. The regulations concerning salt do no such thing and they are a far cry from 'banning junk food.' Essentially, all it would mean is that your Big Mac would now be required to contain a lower level of salt.

    Does individual choice suffer? No. The same range of food will be available, but it will just contain less salt overall. Furthermore, I assume people are still perfectly capable of adding more salt to their foods by themselves if they really want to.

    Ergo, no loss of freedom, only salt.
    I guess this is the difference between someone who is a citizen vs someone who is a subject.

    whenever THIS government acts beyond the scope of its legitimate powers it diminishes the freedom of all americans. its a difficult concept for most foreigners and many americans to comprehend but when OUR government acts beyond the scope of its proper powers, it insults the constitution and the foundation of freedom upon which it is based.



  7. #27
    Student Yossarian's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Federal Government push food processors into lowering salt content?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I guess this is the difference between someone who is a citizen vs someone who is a subject.

    whenever THIS government acts beyond the scope of its legitimate powers it diminishes the freedom of all americans. its a difficult concept for most foreigners and many americans to comprehend but when OUR government acts beyond the scope of its proper powers, it insults the constitution and the foundation of freedom upon which it is based.
    That statement is a non sequitur as I have already shown. It does not follow that (assuming this to be true) by acting beyond the scope of a legal document that enshrines individual freedom (which it seems they are not, anyway) the government is therefore limiting individual freedom.

    This is because there clearly exists a 'third way', i.e. that government can regulate and still leave personal freedom undiminished, which is patently what will occur in the present case.

    Justify your position in response to this or I am done.
    Last edited by Yossarian; 04-20-10 at 11:26 PM.

  8. #28
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Should the Federal Government push food processors into lowering salt content?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    That statement is false as I have already shown. It does not follow that (assuming this to be true) by acting beyond the scope of a legal document that enshrines individual freedom (to a large extent) the government is therefore limiting individual freedom.

    This is proved by the fact that there clearly exists a third way, i.e. that government can regulate and still leave personal freedom undiminished, which is patently what will occur in the present case.

    Justify your position in response to this or I am done.
    YOu were right when you conceded you really don't understand the constitution of the USA

    best to stay with that position. It is far easier to defend



  9. #29
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    Re: Should the Federal Government push food processors into lowering salt content?

    Americans are more likely to die from complications high blood pressure, as a cause of high sodium intake, than terrorism.

    Food corporations know what they are putting in their product, and they know the health risks involved. Is it the role of the Government to disallow such foods to hit the market? Or is it just ethic-neglect?
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

  10. #30
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    Re: Should the Federal Government push food processors into lowering salt content?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    Americans are more likely to die from complications high blood pressure, as a cause of high sodium intake, than terrorism.

    Food corporations know what they are putting in their product, and they know the health risks involved. Is it the role of the Government to disallow such foods to hit the market? Or is it just ethic-neglect?
    Any idiot should know what they're putting into their body
    "Doubleplusungood"

    George Orwell

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