View Poll Results: Should the government monitor emails without a warrant?

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  • Yes[because email was not around with the 4th amendment was written,nor is it actual property)

    2 3.77%
  • No(because the 4th amendment applies to today just as it did back then when it was written)

    47 88.68%
  • Maybe/I do not know.

    4 7.55%
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Thread: Should the government monitor emails without a warrant?

  1. #41
    Sage

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    Re: Should the government monitor emails without a warrant?

    Are we stating that national security is secondary to "privacy", and one's fear of the government?
    If so, then much work needs to be done in order to restore the people's trust in the government.
    For me, I don't care, our government can read every single one of my eMails. They would be bored to tears and beyond.

  2. #42
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Should the government monitor emails without a warrant?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jucon View Post
    Let me make my point perfectly clear. You absolutely have the right to own a gun. The place where I draw the line is when it comes to assault type weapons. I am wholly uncomfortable with citizens having access to military grade weapons.
    First things first...
    You are sloshing a lot of terms around, and not using them correctly.

    Machineguns are, legally, full-auto weapons. Technically, they have a much narrower defintion; there are several kinds of full-auto weapons, not all of which are, technically, machineguns.

    Assault rifles are 'military grade' weaopons. They are select-fire and thereore, legally, but not technically, machineguns.

    'Assault weapons' are semi-auto guns that look scary.

    However I do understand the pro-gun rights people's arguments... I simply disagree with them concerning the extent that they want to extend their 2nd amendment right.
    Given the court ulings to that effect, it is impossible to argue that "arms", as the term is used in the 2nd, does not cover any and every class of fireaems you care to mention.

    Further, the record shows your fear of civilian possession of these weapons is unwarranted - legally owned machineguns are for all intents and purposes never used in crime.

  3. #43
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Should the government monitor emails without a warrant?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Are we stating that national security is secondary to "privacy", and one's fear of the government?
    Sometimes. That's why not every search requires a warrant.

  4. #44
    Educator Jucon's Avatar
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    Re: Should the government monitor emails without a warrant?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Further, the record shows your fear of civilian possession of these weapons is unwarranted - legally owned machineguns are for all intents and purposes never used in crime.
    My "fears" are not that law abiding citizens will get these weapons. My fears are that non-law abiding citizens will more easily get their hands on these weapons. You can say my fears are unwarranted all day and night... my opinions still stand strong.

    Legally owned machine guns are not used in crimes because they are obtained by law-abiding citizens and are handed out selectively. And I hope to keep it that way.
    Last edited by Jucon; 04-19-10 at 05:04 PM.

  5. #45
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Should the government monitor emails without a warrant?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jucon View Post
    My "fears" are not that law abiding citizens will get these weapons. My fears are that non-law abiding citizens will get their hands on these weapons.
    Then you need to address that, rather than access for the law abiding.
    If there is a machinegun used in a crime, you can bet it was not a legal gun used by its legal owner.

    You can say my fears are unwarranted all day and night... my opinions still stand strong.
    Well, that just means you're arguing from your phobias.
    If you don't have a sound argument to support your position, then no one need bother taking it seriously - your "fears" are not sufficient argument to infringe upon my rights.

    Legally owned machine guns are not used in crimes because they are obtained by law-abiding citizens and are handed out selectively.
    No more 'selectively' than any other firearm.
    So, if they arent used in crime, as you agree, what's your porblem with law-abiding citizens legally owning them?
    Last edited by Goobieman; 04-19-10 at 05:14 PM.

  6. #46
    Educator Jucon's Avatar
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    Re: Should the government monitor emails without a warrant?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Then you need to address that, rather than access for the law abiding.
    If there is a machinegun used in a crime, you can bet it was not a legal gun used by its legal owner.


    Well, that just means you're arguing from your phobias.
    If you don't have a sound argument to support your position, then no one need bother taking it seriously
    - your "fears" are not sufficient argument to infringe upon my rights.


    No more 'selectively' than any other firearm.
    So, if they arent used in crime, as you agree, what's your porblem with law-abiding citizens legally owning them?
    You should try telling any conservative talk show host the bold part.

    I would never and have never presented my opinions as being facts in themselves. They are simply MY beliefs. You are welcome to taking my opinions for what they are worth or not take them deeming them worthless... it's up to you. But the point of a forum is to discuss topics with facts AND opinions.

    And your assumption that more machine guns would not lead to more violence is also an OPINION, not based on fact. But you don't see me giving you **** for that. By all means, speak your mind... but who are you to tell me I AM wrong because you think I am?

    Infringe on your rights? Just because you can't get a certain kind of gun does not mean you have no right at all. Go buy 50 hand guns and 25 shotguns for all I care. With that much firepower how could anyone be worried about their safety?


    You want a machine gun? Go through the set procedures. You can't get a machine gun? Go join the military. I see no reason to obtain a machine gun besides for recreation and defending oneself from a government that they view as tyrannical. I for one don't view the government as being tyrannical and don't see it getting that way... so I don't see any reason for getting a machine gun and I would be against any uprising against the current government. If you don't like what the government is doing, vote for someone different in the next election.


    And if you really want to know where some of my fears come from concerning military grade weapons... look no further than Mexico.
    Last edited by Jucon; 04-19-10 at 08:25 PM.

  7. #47
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Should the government monitor emails without a warrant?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jucon View Post
    You should try telling any conservative talk show host the bold part.
    Red herring.
    I would never and have never presented my opinions as being facts in themselves. They are simply MY beliefs. You are welcome to taking my opinions for what they are worth or not take them deeming them worthless... it's up to you. But the point of a forum is to discuss topics with facts AND opinions.
    If your opinions arent based in fact, then there's not much to them.
    And your assumption that more machine guns would not lead to more violence is also an OPINION, not based on fact
    When did I voice this opinion?
    Oh - I didn't. Another strawman.
    But you don't see me giving you **** for that. By all means, speak your mind... but who are you to tell me I AM wrong because you think I am?
    So far, you have been -demonstrated- wrong.
    Infringe on your rights? Just because you can't get a certain kind of gun does not mean you have no right at all.
    This is just as valid as arguing that banning the Roman Catholic Church does not violate the 1st amendment because you can still be Lutheran.
    You want a machine gun? Go through the set procedures.
    So... you -don't- have a problem with law abiding citizens having machineguns?
    Make up your mind.
    I see no reason to obtain a machine gun besides for recreation and defending oneself from a government that they view as tyrannical.
    I see no reason to burn the flag or defecate on a picture of Jesus -- but I agree that you have the right to do so. So... what's your point?

  8. #48
    onomatopoeic
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    Re: Should the government monitor emails without a warrant?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Should the government monitor emails without a warrant?

    Yes
    (because the email was not around when the 4th amendment was written,nor is it tangible)

    No(because the 4th amendment applies to today just as it did back then when it was written))

    Maybe/I do not know.

    4th amendment

    [I]The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, ....
    "Monitor" is a more Complex word than you make it out to be.

    If the government anonymously monitors all net/phone traffic (the Trunk line) just looking for a few key words (such as 'TNT' in Arabic or Urdu) until they get a voice/text hit, then it's not a problem.

    If the government abuses this privilege, and it's been shown it's a temptation they can't resist, then it should be prohibited totally and any guilty given prison time.
    -
    Last edited by mbig; 04-20-10 at 07:13 PM.
    I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.
    anon

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