View Poll Results: Should the government monitor emails without a warrant?

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  • Yes[because email was not around with the 4th amendment was written,nor is it actual property)

    2 3.77%
  • No(because the 4th amendment applies to today just as it did back then when it was written)

    47 88.68%
  • Maybe/I do not know.

    4 7.55%
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Thread: Should the government monitor emails without a warrant?

  1. #31
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    Re: Should the government monitor emails without a warrant?

    I don't support warrantless government snooping, but one thing to keep in mind is that standard email has no encryption on it. It is sent as plain text, and anyone who was on the path to the message's destination could read it.

  2. #32
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    Re: Should the government monitor emails without a warrant?

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    I really don't know what you're talking about...in the last sentence of what you quoted, it said the following:
    Right, the Patriot Act was reauthorized with portions of it changed. Later, those portions, the changes and all, were struck down as unconstitutional. Meaning the ability to do this as it is described in what you quoted, from my understanding, is no longer there. According to what you posted, it seems that if they had continued to use them they were doing so unconstitutionally and illegally. Unless I'm reading the portion about it being struck down wrong.

    And please don't think I'm against using the NSL's, they just cut the crap, and let our intelligence agencies do what they should be doing anyway. I personally don't care if the NSA looks through my emails, or hacks my facebook, or whatever, I have nothing to hide.
    NP, and I understand your sentiment. I'm of the mind that immediately following an attack many of the things they did were not over the line but as time goes on our system does as its meant to and slowly but surely starts stripping away the more restrictive and questionable of security measures as the balance shifts back to freedom.

    Just one of my pet peeves that a lot of times people seem to think the Patriot did, or currently does, far more than it does.

  3. #33
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    Re: Should the government monitor emails without a warrant?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Right, the Patriot Act was reauthorized with portions of it changed. Later, those portions, the changes and all, were struck down as unconstitutional. Meaning the ability to do this as it is described in what you quoted, from my understanding, is no longer there. According to what you posted, it seems that if they had continued to use them they were doing so unconstitutionally and illegally. Unless I'm reading the portion about it being struck down wrong.
    Oh, okay I see what you mean. Then I'd have to agree with you, the NSL's are probably not used anymore, so the NSA, and FBI are no longer using them.

    Hopefully there are NSL's without gag orders, which would really amount to by-passing judicial review, but still being open to it at a later time.
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  4. #34
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Should the government monitor emails without a warrant?

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    We didn't have guns/arms in 1776?
    The argument is usually that because the people who wrote the constitution could never have imagnied M16s, M60s, etc, that the constitution doesnt cover them.

    I'd wager that if any of them saw an M16, they'd know what it was for.
    If they saw CNN's feed dish, they wouldn't have a clue.

  5. #35
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Should the government monitor emails without a warrant?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jucon View Post
    For the record I am against average citizens owning assault rifles, but am also against the Patriot Act and tracking Emails.
    Are you against the fomer because they were not around back when the Constitution was written?
    The latter?

  6. #36
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Should the government monitor emails without a warrant?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jucon View Post
    And pro-gun loons like to use the "guns are guns and they are all covered by the 2nd amendment" as a reason to justify owning any and every type of weapon. So surely they would love for non-convicted gang members, drug dealers and unstable people to be able to own AK-47s and gatling guns.
    Non sequitur.
    Arguing what weapons are protected by the 2nd isn't relevant to who should or should not have guns.

    See what I'm doing? I'm supposing a group's ideals to blindly label them. Does that make what I said right? No
    No... that you put forth a non-sequitur makes you wrong.

    Again I say, how about we trying understanding the other sides (and individuals from said sides) before labeling them?
    The anti-gun side is already pretty easy to understand, and their arguments, such as they are, are pretty easy to defeat.

  7. #37
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Should the government monitor emails without a warrant?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jucon View Post
    My point is also proven by this poll, where no one has voted "yes", even though you assume anti-gun people would vote "yes". Well, I'm not anti-gun, but anti-civilians-owning-automatic-weapons... and I voted "no".
    This does nothing but prove that those who -do- argue that the 2nd doesnt protect those weapons because they weren't around in 1791 are inconsistent.

  8. #38
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    Re: Should the government monitor emails without a warrant?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jucon View Post
    The major difference between gun owning rights and the other rights is that with guns, people can kill other people... more easily than with knives or other melee weapons.
    Of course. That's why the right is protected -- because, sometimes, people need to kill other people.

    By allowing everyone to own machine guns, you unintentionally are enabling violent people to own those same guns...
    Strawman. No one argues that everyone should be allowed to own any gun, much less machineguns.

  9. #39
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    Re: Should the government monitor emails without a warrant?

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    E-mail accounts are property of the provider, and those providers can technically read your e-mails without your permission because the contents are on their servers. So to me this has more to do with the rights of the providers to not be searched.

    Why is your government so hell bent on getting the go-ahead to do so many things without a warrant?
    It's one less hoop to jump through. Plus, a warrant must be sworn to, show probable cause, and be to some degree specific as to what is being searched for. With no warrant, the authorities can simply justify their search by showing the evidence they have gathered (if any).

  10. #40
    Educator Jucon's Avatar
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    Re: Should the government monitor emails without a warrant?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Of course. That's why the right is protected -- because, sometimes, people need to kill other people.
    Let me make myself perfectly clear. You absolutely have the right to own a gun. The place where I draw the line is when it comes to assault type weapons. I am wholly uncomfortable with citizens having access to military grade weapons. However I do understand the pro-gun rights people's arguments... I simply disagree with them concerning the extent that they want to extend their 2nd amendment right.


    My MAIN point from those previous posts was to point out that people from all sides can stereotype the other sides... but that doesn't mean those stereotypes are always right.
    Last edited by Jucon; 04-19-10 at 04:47 PM.

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