View Poll Results: Is affirmative action necessary in today's society?

Voters
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  • Yes, it bridges the disparity between minority and non-minority students and workers

    6 7.59%
  • Yes, it is important for the social welfare and diversity of the country

    6 7.59%
  • No, it encourages individuals to identify themselves as "disadvantaged"

    35 44.30%
  • No, it provides a basis for "reverse-discrimination"

    50 63.29%
  • No, it is devalues the accomplishments of both those who it benefits and those it does not

    45 56.96%
  • It is necessary for gender, but not race

    2 2.53%
  • It is necessary for race, but not gender

    1 1.27%
  • Other, please specify

    11 13.92%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Affirmative Action

  1. #271
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    Re: Affirmative Action

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Except for the fact that black kids are much more likely to grow up poor and in dysfunctional crime-ridden communities than black kids, per capita.

    but that is not due to race, it is socio-economic factors, and that is what should be addressed by AA not their race.
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    Re: Affirmative Action

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    but that is not due to race, it is socio-economic factors, and that is what should be addressed by AA not their race.
    I think that's arguable. There are a lot of policies by the U.S. Govt. that contributed to black poverty.

  3. #273
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    Re: Affirmative Action

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I think that's arguable. There are a lot of policies by the U.S. Govt. that contributed to black poverty.
    yet there are whites that do grow up in similar conditions, and they don't receive any special treatment, it seems that by trying to enforce equality, the US government is perpetuating inequality, and any policies that do this should go, including race based AA
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  4. #274
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    Re: Affirmative Action

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    Sorry but in a lot of places? Inner city kids go to sleep with no food, wake up with no food and repeat this over and over again. Then people expect them to somehow "Rise Up" out of that. Kinda hard to rise up and get good grades when the highlight of your day is a free lunch and not getting shot by a stray bullet.
    BS. Do you need me to find the correlation between poverty and obesity? Poor kids might have many problems, getting proper nutrition among them, but being hungry doesn't appear to be included.
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    Re: Affirmative Action

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    no excuse there

    an explanation

    if a kid has not been adequately fed, or arrives at school without enough sleep, or is concerned about his/her family's physical well being, it is not surprising the student's focus would be on those needs instead of school work

    not a desirable circumstance, but one which explains the disparity of achievement
    This is applicable to only a few. The overall cause is not racism or the failure of the system. It is the absolute and utter failure of the black family structure. This is something we can fix, but we have to do it ourselves and soon.

    "Both explanations are true. But black men aren't born incarcerated, crime-prone dropouts. What principally renders them vulnerable to such a plight is the absence of fathers and their stabilizing influence.

    Fatherless boys (as a general rule) become ineligible to be husbands -- though no less likely to become fathers -- and their children fall into the patterns that render them ineligible to be husbands.

    The absence of fathers means, as well, that girls lack both a pattern against which to measure the boys who pursue them and an example of sacrificial love between a man and a woman. As the ministers were at pains to say last week, it isn't the incompetence of mothers that is at issue but the absence of half of the adult support needed for families to be most effective.
    " - William Raspberry - Why Our Black Families Are Failing - washingtonpost.com

    "Read through the megazillion words on class, income mobility, and poverty in the recent New York Times series “Class Matters” and you still won’t grasp two of the most basic truths on the subject: 1. entrenched, multigenerational poverty is largely black; and 2. it is intricately intertwined with the collapse of the nuclear family in the inner city." - The Black Family: 40 Years of Lies by Kay S. Hymowitz, City Journal Summer 2005

    How can a problem be fixed when every time it is mentioned it is somehow racist?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    but (supposedly) being from the minority community and thus having what you believe to be a superior insight into the black culture, explain what about my statement is wrong
    Exemplifying gangsta's as hero's and the blatant excuse giving for failure is not helping. We don't need excuses, we need people to accept responsibility for their own actions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
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  6. #276
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    Re: Affirmative Action

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    This is applicable to only a few. The overall cause is not racism or the failure of the system. It is the absolute and utter failure of the black family structure. This is something we can fix, but we have to do it ourselves and soon.

    "Both explanations are true. But black men aren't born incarcerated, crime-prone dropouts. What principally renders them vulnerable to such a plight is the absence of fathers and their stabilizing influence.

    Fatherless boys (as a general rule) become ineligible to be husbands -- though no less likely to become fathers -- and their children fall into the patterns that render them ineligible to be husbands.

    The absence of fathers means, as well, that girls lack both a pattern against which to measure the boys who pursue them and an example of sacrificial love between a man and a woman. As the ministers were at pains to say last week, it isn't the incompetence of mothers that is at issue but the absence of half of the adult support needed for families to be most effective.
    " - William Raspberry - Why Our Black Families Are Failing - washingtonpost.com

    "Read through the megazillion words on class, income mobility, and poverty in the recent New York Times series “Class Matters” and you still won’t grasp two of the most basic truths on the subject: 1. entrenched, multigenerational poverty is largely black; and 2. it is intricately intertwined with the collapse of the nuclear family in the inner city." - The Black Family: 40 Years of Lies by Kay S. Hymowitz, City Journal Summer 2005

    How can a problem be fixed when every time it is mentioned it is somehow racist?



    Exemplifying gangsta's as hero's and the blatant excuse giving for failure is not helping. We don't need excuses, we need people to accept responsibility for their own actions.
    Good post.
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  7. #277
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    Re: Affirmative Action

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    This is applicable to only a few. The overall cause is not racism or the failure of the system. It is the absolute and utter failure of the black family structure. This is something we can fix, but we have to do it ourselves and soon.

    "Both explanations are true. But black men aren't born incarcerated, crime-prone dropouts. What principally renders them vulnerable to such a plight is the absence of fathers and their stabilizing influence.

    Fatherless boys (as a general rule) become ineligible to be husbands -- though no less likely to become fathers -- and their children fall into the patterns that render them ineligible to be husbands.

    The absence of fathers means, as well, that girls lack both a pattern against which to measure the boys who pursue them and an example of sacrificial love between a man and a woman. As the ministers were at pains to say last week, it isn't the incompetence of mothers that is at issue but the absence of half of the adult support needed for families to be most effective.
    " - William Raspberry - Why Our Black Families Are Failing - washingtonpost.com

    "Read through the megazillion words on class, income mobility, and poverty in the recent New York Times series “Class Matters” and you still won’t grasp two of the most basic truths on the subject: 1. entrenched, multigenerational poverty is largely black; and 2. it is intricately intertwined with the collapse of the nuclear family in the inner city." - The Black Family: 40 Years of Lies by Kay S. Hymowitz, City Journal Summer 2005

    How can a problem be fixed when every time it is mentioned it is somehow racist?
    the stigma, the shame of being an unwed mother no longer exists - at least to the point that it seems to dissuade women from becoming pregnant without a husband
    Nearly 40 percent of babies born in the United States in 2007 were delivered by unwed mothers, according to data released last month by the National Center for Health Statistics. The 1.7 million out-of-wedlock births, of 4.3 million total births, marked a more than 25 percent jump from five years before.
    Out-of-wedlock births hit record high - CNN.com
    Nearly 72 percent of the births to black women were out of wedlock. Mothers were unmarried in about 51 percent of Hispanic births and 28 percent of non-Hispanic white births.
    Unwed birth rate reaches all-time high - Women's health- msnbc.com
    i share your observation that individuals having children they cannot afford to raise is irresponsible. and while the growing problem is more epidemic in the minority populations, it is not exclusively theirs, as the data indicates
    but we have a problem without a solution - at least a solution more effective than wishing irresponsible people would start behaving responsibly
    as i see it there are but two options to stem this long-term, growing problem:
    1. end the incentivization of having more children out off wedlock; each child adds to the government check received for those who require public assistance
    but to do that and deny additional assistance also hurts the child, who did not ask to be born a bastard into poverty. so, to reach the cause we adversely impact the innocent
    2. license people to have children. hell, we license someone to do something as common as fish in public waters or drive a vehicle
    but that would upset those whose knee-jerk response would be that such licensing encroaches on one's right to self determination ... tho these are very often the same folks who object to the public burden of subsidizing the rearing of the out-of-wedlock kids
    and possibly, there is a third solution, which is to take away the children from parents who are unable to provide for them. but that would not stifle the future opportunity for the same people to have more out-of-wedlock children for the government to have to provide for

    if you have another solution, please offer it up; otherwise, identify which of those above you could support and why

    Exemplifying gangsta's as hero's and the blatant excuse giving for failure is not helping. We don't need excuses, we need people to accept responsibility for their own actions.
    what are the role models for success in the poor minority communities other than the baller, the dealer, the rapper ... who else do these kids have to emulate in their own behavior to attain "success" as they understand it

    i don't think we actually disagree much about the problem. it is the solution which evades us both. and this is a major reason why i believe that poor parenting is the second worst problem in America which needs to be addressed
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  8. #278
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    Re: Affirmative Action

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    i don't think we actually disagree much about the problem. it is the solution which evades us both. and this is a major reason why i believe that poor parenting is the second worst problem in America which needs to be addressed
    I agree with most of your post.

    My problem is programs like affirmative action is not addressing the problem. It instead is making it worse, and creating a racial rift. It is in my opinion adding to this entitlement mentality that is completely screwing up the black community as bad as the drug trade. It's not just the inner city either.

    Like you I don't know the answer. I do know things like affirmative action have long outlived it's usefulness.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 04-20-10 at 01:00 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  9. #279
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    Re: Affirmative Action

    I know a lot of poor white kids who lived through the same childhoods as the AA supporter described.

    They aren't benefitting from AA.

    That fair?

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    Re: Affirmative Action

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I agree with most of your post.

    My problem is programs like affirmative action is not addressing the problem. It instead is making it worse, and creating a racial rift. It is in my opinion adding to this entitlement mentality that is completely screwing up the black community as bad as the drug trade. It's not just the inner city either.

    Like you I don't know the answer. I do know things like affirmative action have long outlived it's usefulness.
    i spent a career working in the federal AA program and saw first-hand that there remains a genuine need to level the playing field for all. racism remains present, tho it is now more covert than overt
    i am disappointed that Obama, who is well positioned to eliminate the race aspect of federal AA programs and instead tailor the eligibility to those of low economic capacity, has shown no inclination to do so
    when we take race out of the equation for eligibility then we will enjoy a substantial buy-in of AA by the general public, which does not now exist
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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