View Poll Results: Is affirmative action necessary in today's society?

Voters
79. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, it bridges the disparity between minority and non-minority students and workers

    6 7.59%
  • Yes, it is important for the social welfare and diversity of the country

    6 7.59%
  • No, it encourages individuals to identify themselves as "disadvantaged"

    35 44.30%
  • No, it provides a basis for "reverse-discrimination"

    50 63.29%
  • No, it is devalues the accomplishments of both those who it benefits and those it does not

    45 56.96%
  • It is necessary for gender, but not race

    2 2.53%
  • It is necessary for race, but not gender

    1 1.27%
  • Other, please specify

    11 13.92%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Affirmative Action

  1. #111
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    Re: Affirmative Action

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    You do realize that one of the people arguing AGAINST AA is black, right? And a few of the others are women?
    i am a white guy arguing for the application of AA principles. what's your point?

    If what you said was true, and the people who benefited from AA were truly more qualified... then AA is quite unnecessary.
    that would be correct if merit and not skin pigmentation was the benchmark used in making selections. unfortunately, that is not yet the circumstance
    and you got it wrong. those AA applicants do NOT have to be more qualified they have to be as qualified as their majority counterparts to be selected. ethnicity becomes the tiebreaker when the qualifications are the same

    AA is racism and sexism written into law. Mandated sexism. Mandated racism.
    actually, i don't disagree. chief justice roberts - whose quote was posted earlier - noted that we should not address racism by making selections based on race. and i agree. it would be much better if AA eligibility was based on economic disadvantage. that middle aged black woman with a $5 net worth would likely participate instead of that average middle aged white woman with a $42,000 net worth. but the black woman with substantial net worth would not qualify while the poor white woman would in an AA system focused on overcoming poverty instead of racial bias. blacks and hispanics would disproportionately qualify for AA and whites and asians would be disproportionately under-represented in the AA program. but it would not qualify those who are entitled to AA advantages becase of ethnicity
    however, until our congressional leaders figure that out, the present AA system addresses - in a more controversial way - that racial disadvantage that blacks and latinos continue to experience

    the ONLY reason someone should be hired is because of their qualifications, NOT because of the color of their skin or because they have tits. If they cannot get the job on qualifications alone, then they don't deserve the job. No government should EVER tell an employer they have to hire someone because that person's skin is a little darker, or because they have a vagina.
    and in the good ole white boy system the good ole white boys hire other good ole white boys. the racism is perpetuated if we do nothing to address it
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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  2. #112
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    Re: Affirmative Action

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    i am a white guy arguing for the application of AA principles. what's your point?


    that would be correct if merit and not skin pigmentation was the benchmark used in making selections. unfortunately, that is not yet the circumstance
    and you got it wrong. those AA applicants do NOT have to be more qualified they have to be as qualified as their majority counterparts to be selected. ethnicity becomes the tiebreaker when the qualifications are the same


    actually, i don't disagree. chief justice roberts - whose quote was posted earlier - noted that we should not address racism by making selections based on race. and i agree. it would be much better if AA eligibility was based on economic disadvantage. that middle aged black woman with a $5 net worth would likely participate instead of that average middle aged white woman with a $42,000 net worth. but the black woman with substantial net worth would not qualify while the poor white woman would in an AA system focused on overcoming poverty instead of racial bias. blacks and hispanics would disproportionately qualify for AA and whites and asians would be disproportionately under-represented in the AA program. but it would not qualify those who are entitled to AA advantages becase of ethnicity
    however, until our congressional leaders figure that out, the present AA system addresses - in a more controversial way - that racial disadvantage that blacks and latinos continue to experience


    and in the good ole white boy system the good ole white boys hire other good ole white boys. the racism is perpetuated if we do nothing to address it
    I almost entirely agree with you. AA, or Positive Discrimination as it is known over here, should be a tool, just one of several, that society uses to ensure equality of opportunity is a reality and not just a vacuous slogan.

    Economic disadvantage is the single most relevant factor in preventing the most talented and most committed from realising their potential, within the education arena and employment market. Transferring AA programmes from their current gender and racial bases to an economic one would serve to strengthen public support for it and still ensure greater diversity within higher education and more generally in the ranks of the upper professional levels of corporations and organisations.

    If society cannot ensure that kids of all backgrounds get a broadly equivalent early-years education (and that should be one of any government's top priorities) then programmes to attempt to level the playing field further along the line should be welcomed and extended. Giving preference to wealthy women or members of ethnic groups doesn't solve the problem at all. What it does is create economic inequalities and undeserving elites within the groups that the programmes are seeking to assist.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

  3. #113
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    Re: Affirmative Action

    Since affirmative action does not help Asian Americans, and often actually hinders them, then any arguments based upon race need to be tossed out. It isn't really about race at all, but about preconceptions.

    Self fulfilling prophesies are funny things, since the more people believe in them, the more they become true.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

  4. #114
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    Re: Affirmative Action

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    The same could be said of some of the Amish folks. I do not see people crying and bitching about them.
    I don't see the Amish sitting on welfare and crying about how abused they are either. It's one thing to partake in a primitive culture and keep quiet about it. It's another to stand on a soap box on the street corner and scream that it's everyone else's fault that you're failing.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  5. #115
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    Re: Affirmative Action

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    and in the good ole white boy system the good ole white boys hire other good ole white boys. the racism is perpetuated if we do nothing to address it
    AA perpetuates racism and sexism. It IS racism and sexism. It addresses nothing at all.

  6. #116
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    Re: Affirmative Action

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    Self fulfilling prophesies are funny things, since the more people believe in them, the more they become true.
    Funny? How so? "The more people believe in them, the more they become true". Isn't that how they are supposed to work? If they didn't work that way, how would they become self-fulfilling?
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

  7. #117
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    Re: Affirmative Action

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    i am a white guy arguing for the application of AA principles. what's your point?
    We're minorities saying, "We don't want your ****ing help. We're quite capable of achieving what we want without your insulting training wheels."


    So do please stop insulting every damn minority person in the country by telling all of us that we're just not good enough to do it on our own and we need a "white guy's" pity in order to achieve anything in life.

  8. #118
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    Re: Affirmative Action

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue
    I almost entirely agree with you. AA, or Positive Discrimination as it is known over here, should be a tool, just one of several, that society uses to ensure equality of opportunity is a reality and not just a vacuous slogan.
    Therein lies the problem. There wouldn't be widespread anti-AA sentiment if it actually promoted "equality of opportunity". The only way it fits that moniker is that it is mandated by racism-based law that you have to have a minority around, "just because". That's why we have terms like "token". Because of AA, I often walk around work and wonder if the black co-worker I see is there because of his credentials or because of his skin color. Affirmative Action has an innate nature to perpetuate racism for exactly that reason. This was not Dr. King's dream. Not even close.

    Economic disadvantage is the single most relevant factor in preventing the most talented and most committed from realising their potential, within the education arena and employment market. Transferring AA programmes from their current gender and racial bases to an economic one would serve to strengthen public support for it and still ensure greater diversity within higher education and more generally in the ranks of the upper professional levels of corporations and organisations.
    It may make it harder, but not impossible by any stretch. Were that true, movies like Lean On Me and Stand And Deliver (both great movies, by the way) would not be based on true stories. Anything worth having is not easy. Granted, I should take that view into my relationship world, but that's a whole other ball of wax. There are so many opportunities out there for everyone. Hell, it's almost to the point where you can't get flip for a college scholarship if you're a white male. And you know what? That's fine with me. My demographic isn't the concern. It's for these ghetto blacks who think the only way to be successful is to be a baller, a rapper, or a dealer. That mentality is what has to be broken, or the cycle of failure keeps going and going.

    If society cannot ensure that kids of all backgrounds get a broadly equivalent early-years education (and that should be one of any government's top priorities) then programmes to attempt to level the playing field further along the line should be welcomed and extended. Giving preference to wealthy women or members of ethnic groups doesn't solve the problem at all. What it does is create economic inequalities and undeserving elites within the groups that the programmes are seeking to assist.
    I'm not against adequate education, but I am against equivalent. Financially successful parents should have a right to a higher level of education for their children, be they white, black, green or red. Children are not equal; some have a strong desire to get good grades, prepare for a future, and envision a plan to succeed. Some would rather just screw around, party, and get Ds to pass. Giving them equvialent education is a complete mismanagement of scarce resources.

    Vouchers would fix that problem. Money for advantages to those who care about school and success, and a bunch of metal detectors and apathetic teachers for those who just don't care. I'm not about to force anyone who doesn't want to give a crap to do so.

  9. #119
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    Re: Affirmative Action

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    one look at that sentence and it is obvious why you were declined for the teaching position
    LOL-that is rather stupid. and this is a chat board Nemo, not a law review article or the Yale Poltical Union's Gardner-White Debate Championship.

    The fact is, there is no RATIONAL argument for affirmative action as it is now practiced but then again, the people supporting it are Emoters not thinkers for the most part.



  10. #120
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    Re: Affirmative Action

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    LOL-that is rather stupid. and this is a chat board Nemo, not a law review article or the Yale Poltical Union's Gardner-White Debate Championship.

    The fact is, there is no RATIONAL argument for affirmative action as it is now practiced but then again, the people supporting it are Emoters not thinkers for the most part.
    Yeah, whatev.

    I would have picked you for the teaching position.
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