View Poll Results: Should piercing the ears of kittens and selling them as 'Gothic Kittens' be a crime?

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  • Yes, it's animal cruelty and exploitive of innocent kittens

    25 46.30%
  • It seems less cruel than docking tails and ears

    6 11.11%
  • No, unless silliness is a crime

    21 38.89%
  • Other, please explain

    2 3.70%
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Thread: Should selling 'Gothic Kittens' be a crime?

  1. #61
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    Re: Should selling 'Gothic Kittens' be a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    It is a common attitude, and one that I find so very offensive.
    These people will never realize the joy that a loving pet can bring to their lives.
    I don't find it so offensive because many people just never know better but I do find it kinda sad for both the animal and them. I just think that when you look at the decision to own a pet, you need to be mindful that this isn't a stuffed wooby for you to cuddle when it's convenient for you. It's a real life and a distinct personality with desires and emotions but, more importantly, instincts that you need to understand before you make a commitment that you might not be able to keep.

    One of the things that does offend me is when people train the personality and instinct out of an animal, particularly dogs. Part of the joy of having a dog is the way a dog behaves and when you crush that behavior, you might as well just have a stuffed animal that you feed. My dogs are socialized and they have boundaries in place for their protection and the protection of my belongings, but they still act like dogs and it's fun...in our house, there's pack heirarchy because we live with the dogs and they live with us. And if you treat them that way, the usually are very well behaved anyway.

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    Re: Should selling 'Gothic Kittens' be a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I don't find it so offensive because many people just never know better but I do find it kinda sad for both the animal and them. I just think that when you look at the decision to own a pet, you need to be mindful that this isn't a stuffed wooby for you to cuddle when it's convenient for you. It's a real life and a distinct personality with desires and emotions but, more importantly, instincts that you need to understand before you make a commitment that you might not be able to keep.

    One of the things that does offend me is when people train the personality and instinct out of an animal, particularly dogs. Part of the joy of having a dog is the way a dog behaves and when you crush that behavior, you might as well just have a stuffed animal that you feed. My dogs are socialized and they have boundaries in place for their protection and the protection of my belongings, but they still act like dogs and it's fun...in our house, there's pack heirarchy because we live with the dogs and they live with us. And if you treat them that way, the usually are very well behaved anyway.
    It makes me mad when I see homeless street people standing on the corner begging with a dog. They all seem to have dogs, and I just know the dogs aren't fed or cared for properly.

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    Re: Should selling 'Gothic Kittens' be a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    It makes me mad when I see homeless street people standing on the corner begging with a dog. They all seem to have dogs, and I just know the dogs aren't fed or cared for properly.
    I have mixed feelings about that though. I have to wonder in those situations if the homeless and the dog don't get on better than most masters and dogs because of how they are forced to live. I am sure when you are so outside the boundaries of society, it's easy to attach yourself to an animal that isn't going to judge you because you are stinky and crapping in your shoe for lack of anywhere else to go. And as many stray dogs as there are, at least when this relationship forms, the dog is better off than finding its way to a pound where it's gonna be put down for just being an inconvenience.

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    Re: Should selling 'Gothic Kittens' be a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Many people who have never spent time around animals or who have a common attitude that an animal is just an accessory don't realize or appreciate the way an animal thinks.
    Exactly, I think to some people they are just moving objects and they don't consider there are reasons for their behavior. Others are just ignorant.

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    If the cat doesn't fit your style, don't have a ****ing cat. Or, even better, get to know your animal's distinct personality and use that to decide if the cat is right for you before you go mutilating it in ways that, while fine for humans, are not at all acceptable to do to an animal for pure ornamentation.
    Bravo! Pets come as they are. Accept it or don't get one.

    You are also right people acquire pets thinking it will just meld into their lifestyle without considering they have personalities and quirks like any living creature. One breed doesn't fit all.

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    Yep. I've also noticed dogs with necklaces. Shoes, shirts, diapers, clip on earings, costumes. All kinds of crap. The arguement that it will hurt itself by playing with the addition to it isn't a very good one. It isn't going to purposely cause itself pain. If it hated it maybe it would get pissed and purposely try to remove it. How is anything I said wrong and not just a furtherance upon what ya'll been saying?

    I got a lil mini datsi and Id never do anything like this do her. The worst accessory she gets is a lil rain coat cuz I live in Washington. But she learned to love it first walk out in the rain.
    And I would say whoever did all that crap to their dogs is an idiot, but none of that rises to the level of abuse that this woman perpetrated on the kitties. She put something on them they cannot just paw off.

    YES, an animal will cause itself pain to rid itself of something unnaturally attached to their body. For Pete's sake, haven't you heard of an animal with a trapped appendage chewing it off so they can get away?

    This woman pierced their necks. As the vet explained, the kitty would continuously feel like it was being bitten in the neck. That particular sensation is provided by nature so that a mother cat can move her babies without them putting up a fight. With no relief from that sensation, the animal would feel tortured.

    What you have said is the animal is retarded for acting like an animal and within the norms of their behavioral standards.

    A raincoat, while a bit silly, is practical and can hardly be compared to 14 gauge metal piercing in the delicate ears of a kitty.
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    Re: Should selling 'Gothic Kittens' be a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    Exactly, I think to some people they are just moving objects and they don't consider there are reasons for their behavior. Others are just ignorant.



    Bravo! Pets come as they are. Accept it or don't get one.

    You are also right people acquire pets thinking it will just meld into their lifestyle without considering they have personalities and quirks like any living creature. One breed doesn't fit all.



    And I would say whoever did all that crap to their dogs is an idiot, but none of that rises to the level of abuse that this woman perpetrated on the kitties. She put something on them they cannot just paw off.

    YES, an animal will cause itself pain to rid itself of something unnaturally attached to their body. For Pete's sake, haven't you heard of an animal with a trapped appendage chewing it off so they can get away?

    This woman pierced their necks. As the vet explained, the kitty would continuously feel like it was being bitten in the neck. That particular sensation is provided by nature so that a mother cat can move her babies without them putting up a fight. With no relief from that sensation, the animal would feel tortured.

    What you have said is the animal is retarded for acting like an animal and within the norms of their behavioral standards.

    A raincoat, while a bit silly, is practical and can hardly be compared to 14 gauge metal piercing in the delicate ears of a kitty.
    Where did I say that it wouldnt? Are you reading what I am typing? I said that it would cause itself harm in a situation of stress. Are you reading anything that I am typing at all other then what you want to see?

    Debating is annoying when you have to keep leading a horse to water. Now I know how annoying it must be when there is one or two crucial foundations I am missing and it must be pointed out.
    Last edited by dirtpoorchris; 04-17-10 at 07:42 PM.
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    Re: Should selling 'Gothic Kittens' be a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    This woman pierced their necks. As the vet explained, the kitty would continuously feel like it was being bitten in the neck. That particular sensation is provided by nature so that a mother cat can move her babies without them putting up a fight. With no relief from that sensation, the animal would feel tortured.
    That's exactly what I'm talking about: ignorance of the instinctual nature of the animal. If you are a pet owner, you need to know and be familiar with the behavior and socialization of that animal from cradle to grave in order to understand how to even train it. Otherwise, you can mess that animal up and cause some serious social issues that will ruin that animal's chances of ever having a home with another human if something happens to you. I'm certainly not the dog whisperer, but I make a point of "listening" to my dogs and training them with their instincts rather than against them.

    For instance, Bishop had an issue nipping at me when he was about 4 months old. Fine when he's playing with Vesta, the other dog, but not ok when he's playing with other people. I would pinch the scruff of his neck hard and put pressure on him to lay down until he rolled over on his back and presented his belly. That may seem cruel, but it's how his mother would have done it to curb bad behavior. In the end, it only took a couple times and now I don't have to worry about him playing too rough around anyone, including other dogs and even babies despite him being close to a hundred pounds now.

    People just need to understand their pets and live with them if they are going to have them.

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    Re: Should selling 'Gothic Kittens' be a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    If something hurts its not going to keep doing it for fun. The only way a cat would rip something out of its ear is by it snagging onto something while it is using lots of momentum or if it freaked out and ripped it out on purpose. No cat is gonna go, "DUR DUR DUR" * tug... "ouch"... *pull.. "ouch".. *Bite a little bit... "ouch that hurt alot"... *BITE IT OFF

    You dangle your fingers like a challanger and a cat usually won't swipe you with enough force to dammage you. (Unless it hates you) They are pretty smart. So you stick something to its ear and it isn't going to rip it out just for fun. Why the hell am I even debating this?
    Humans don't rip their earrings out of their ears just for fun either, but it happens all. the. time. The chances of a cat tearing out an earring are far greater.

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    Re: Should selling 'Gothic Kittens' be a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    Where did I say that it wouldnt? Are you reading what I am typing? I said that it would cause itself harm in a situation of stress. Are you reading anything that I am typing at all other then what you want to see?

    Debating is annoying when you have to keep leading a horse to water. Now I know how annoying it must be when there is one or two crucial foundations I am missing and it must be pointed out.
    This is what you said:

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    Lol if a cat is retarded enough to rip something out of its ear maybe it needs to be put down. Now if you put them in and the cat instantly, and constantly starts clawing, ripping at them to get them out obviously then need to be removed. If it was acclimated to it from an early age then maybe you should be worried they might accidentally get caught on something. If it was an inside cat then there would be almost no problem. I think this case right here is unacceptable simply because the size and weight of the earings. Little tiny loops would look tits. But if this cat were to shake its head try it looks like it might put out one of it's own eyes.
    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris;1058694725[B
    ]If something hurts its not going to keep doing it for fun. [/B]The only way a cat would rip something out of its ear is by it snagging onto something while it is using lots of momentum or if it freaked out and ripped it out on purpose. No cat is gonna go, "DUR DUR DUR" * tug... "ouch"... *pull.. "ouch".. *Bite a little bit... "ouch that hurt alot"... *BITE IT OFF

    You dangle your fingers like a challanger and a cat usually won't swipe you with enough force to dammage you. (Unless it hates you) They are pretty smart. So you stick something to its ear and it isn't going to rip it out just for fun. Why the hell am I even debating this?
    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    Yep. I've also noticed dogs with necklaces. Shoes, shirts, diapers, clip on earings, costumes. All kinds of crap. The arguement that it will hurt itself by playing with the addition to it isn't a very good one. It isn't going to purposely cause itself pain. If it hated it maybe it would get pissed and purposely try to remove it. How is anything I said wrong and not just a furtherance upon what ya'll been saying?

    I got a lil mini datsi and Id never do anything like this do her. The worst accessory she gets is a lil rain coat cuz I live in Washington. But she learned to love it first walk out in the rain.
    You're going around and around saying the animal won't hurt itself and if it does it's retarded and needs to be put down.

    That is just not true.

    Bringing in dog clothes and the other nonsense, only muddied your point.

    If you agree, the earrings can cause the animal to harm itself and that is a natural behavior, then there is nothing to debate.


    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    That's exactly what I'm talking about: ignorance of the instinctual nature of the animal. If you are a pet owner, you need to know and be familiar with the behavior and socialization of that animal from cradle to grave in order to understand how to even train it. Otherwise, you can mess that animal up and cause some serious social issues that will ruin that animal's chances of ever having a home with another human if something happens to you. I'm certainly not the dog whisperer, but I make a point of "listening" to my dogs and training them with their instincts rather than against them.

    For instance, Bishop had an issue nipping at me when he was about 4 months old. Fine when he's playing with Vesta, the other dog, but not ok when he's playing with other people. I would pinch the scruff of his neck hard and put pressure on him to lay down until he rolled over on his back and presented his belly. That may seem cruel, but it's how his mother would have done it to curb bad behavior. In the end, it only took a couple times and now I don't have to worry about him playing too rough around anyone, including other dogs and even babies despite him being close to a hundred pounds now.

    People just need to understand their pets and live with them if they are going to have them.
    No, none of that is cruel and I was instructed to make a similar move when one of my dogs, long since passed, would snap at me as I tried to clean up the trash she dumped on the floor. It worked.

    Safety for the pet and the family is of prime concern and it's the ignorant pet owner who usually has a tragedy on their hands or abuses a pet because they don't understand animal behavior.

    We are in complete agreement.
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    This is the important stuff. We canít get lost in discrimination. We canít get lost in B.S. We canít get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
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    Re: Should selling 'Gothic Kittens' be a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    Unbelievable. You couldn't have read the various cut and pasted articles. Clearly she abused these animals:
    Did you bother to read what I said and understand it in context. Let me answer that for you....

    NO

    We do much worse to many more animals in the name of fashion, science etc. And that is not abuse. Why would this be????

    I don't see any of the fashion company's who test on animals going to jail? Oh I guess lip gloss is a valuable service to humanity?

    Get a grip. They are animals, and that is that. They are not human and have not rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    Haven't you ever noticed animals, if allowed to, will lick and bite stitches and tear bandages from injuries? It is in their nature to remove foreign bodies and objects from themselves. There is nothing retarded about the cats' behavior, only that of this stupid woman.
    And dogs eat cat ****, and my Parrot craps on anything and everything, they are animals. No matter how much we love and care for them they are NOT humans and are not afforded any rights.

    What happens when a dog bites someone? No trial, no excuse, they are put down, period. When a racing dog can't be adopted, they are put down. If an animal is at most shelters to long, they are put down.

    No judge, jury or trial. They have no natural rights other than the ones we as the masters give them.

    They were her property and being charged with animal cruelty for piercing considering the rest that goes on, is just stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    One of the cats had torn out one of piercings.
    Take it to a vet.

    Wow that was hard.

    PS If my parrot (whom I love dearly) messed up and I decided I did not want it any more, I could just kill it, period. No cruelty charges, no police. Just a dead animal to bury. It is an animal.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 04-17-10 at 09:41 PM.
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  10. #70
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    Re: Should selling 'Gothic Kittens' be a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    PS If my parrot (whom I love dearly) messed up and I decided I did not want it any more, I could just kill it, period. No cruelty charges, no police. Just a dead animal to bury. It is an animal.
    Out of your entire post, this part really ticked me off. We are all animals. Just because a dog, or a cat cannot speak english, and tell us it doesn't like ear piercings, or getting its tail cut or whatever doesn't mean it wants that done to it. Animals feel pain, and they can perceive quite a lot.
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