View Poll Results: Should piercing the ears of kittens and selling them as 'Gothic Kittens' be a crime?

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  • Yes, it's animal cruelty and exploitive of innocent kittens

    25 46.30%
  • It seems less cruel than docking tails and ears

    6 11.11%
  • No, unless silliness is a crime

    21 38.89%
  • Other, please explain

    2 3.70%
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Thread: Should selling 'Gothic Kittens' be a crime?

  1. #121
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    Re: Should selling 'Gothic Kittens' be a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I am not certain I am following, but lets see.

    If I own a table, I infer no rights to that table other than the rights I as the owner infer to it. The government cannot and should not do this. This would be no different for animals. So I am not certain what rights the animal would have by me owning it?

    By owning the animal, since it is an investment into my own happiness it would make sense for me to take care of it and treat it well. The problem is we allow breeders to crop tails and ears, even Peirce as I mentioned before. We allow inhuman conditions for cows and fir animals, but this woman gets charged for piercing?

    Like you said for the child being charged as an adult, the law needs to be enforced objectively, or not at all.

    This subjective prosecution for feel good laws and choosing what to call abuse in one case and good grooming procedures in another is wrong.

    I don't think animal cruelty laws should exist either way outside of maybe a fine, because in the end, they are still property. But you can tell allot about a person by the way they treat an animal. This goes for our society as a whole as well.
    Fair enough. I think where we part company on this issue is that I think by virtue of the fact that the pet is a life and a personality unto itself, society has an obligation to protect the well being of the pet and to defend against unneccessary cruelties perpetrated against it. I don't think the pet should be endowed with full legal personhood, but I think certain moral and ethical boundaries should be enforced when it comes to the treatment of the animal kept as a pet.

    Now what those boundaries are is open to debate.

  2. #122
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    Re: Should selling 'Gothic Kittens' be a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Fair enough. I think where we part company on this issue is that I think by virtue of the fact that the pet is a life and a personality unto itself, society has an obligation to protect the well being of the pet and to defend against unneccessary cruelties perpetrated against it. I don't think the pet should be endowed with full legal personhood, but I think certain moral and ethical boundaries should be enforced when it comes to the treatment of the animal kept as a pet.

    Now what those boundaries are is open to debate.
    This is the part I am not understanding. What makes a "pet" more important than a work animal? The work animal also has a life and personality.

    I guess maybe it is as you said and comes down to where the line needs to be drawn.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 04-18-10 at 07:56 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
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  3. #123
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    Re: Should selling 'Gothic Kittens' be a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    This is the part I am not understanding. What makes a "pet" more important than a work animal? The work animal also has a life and personality.

    I guess maybe it is as you said and comes down to where the line needs to be drawn.
    I don't believe that animals should be used for work when machines can accomplish the same task. I just have a compassion for the life of the creature that I think the law does not share. I accept that.

  4. #124
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    Re: Should selling 'Gothic Kittens' be a crime?

    Blackdog, would you support letting people abandon their dog with no food or water in a place that wouldn't cause a nuisance to other people?

  5. #125
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    Re: Should selling 'Gothic Kittens' be a crime?

    With rights come responsibilities.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



  6. #126
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    Re: Should selling 'Gothic Kittens' be a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarcho-fascist View Post
    Blackdog, would you support letting people abandon their dog with no food or water in a place that wouldn't cause a nuisance to other people?
    Then it becomes a burden to the community and infringes on the rights of someone else.

    So no.

    It looks like IT already answered this...

    "With rights come responsibilities."
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  7. #127
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    Re: Should selling 'Gothic Kittens' be a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Then it becomes a burden to the community and infringes on the rights of someone else.
    No it doesn't. It's your property, so you can let it slowly starve to death. No burden on anyone else.

    Right?

  8. #128
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    Re: Should selling 'Gothic Kittens' be a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    No it doesn't.
    Yes it does according to the question he asked.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    It's your property, so you can let it slowly starve to death. No burden on anyone else.

    Right?
    Yes you could. but it has nothing to do with my argument or what we are talking about.

    If you want to debate the issue then do that. If you want to troll or bait do it someplace else.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  9. #129
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    Re: Should selling 'Gothic Kittens' be a crime?

    Blackdog, would you support letting people abandon their dog with no food or water in a place that wouldn't cause a nuisance to other people?

  10. #130
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    Re: Should selling 'Gothic Kittens' be a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Who's getting snippy? You were wrong and your statement is not true. Don't think because I type matter of fact I am getting snippy.
    I was not wrong. It is not only a fact, but a law that you must humanely kill an animal in the meatpacking industry.

    So if I hit your dog over and over to crack it's skull, that is not torture?
    Depends on your purpose, but probably no.

    Keeping animals locked in tiny pens in there own feces until they are killed is not torture?
    Arguably, but I also think animal agriculture needs to be reformed to eliminate unneccesary cruelty.

    Burning monkeys with bleaching products for hair etc is not torture? Heck we need hair care products more than the monkeys.
    Yes. Which is why I don't support animal testing for cosmetic purposes. It's not even required by the FDA.

    And yet you justify all the rest?

    Please tell me why this woman should have been arrested again?

    Again no one has offered any evidence at all as to why this woman should have been arrested for animal cruelty. Yet our own farms and company's do much worse on a daily bases and no arrests.

    Yea for personal property rights being ignored! It's a great day for America!
    Two wrongs don't make a right?
    be humble for you are made of earth; be noble for you are made of stars

    Serbian proverb

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