View Poll Results: Is protesting at funerals 'Free Speech'?

Voters
55. You may not vote on this poll
  • No, this was never the intent of the founding fathers!

    2 3.64%
  • It's harassment and should be illegal

    24 43.64%
  • It's open to interpretation

    4 7.27%
  • It's most certainly a form of protected free speech

    18 32.73%
  • Other, please explain

    7 12.73%
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Thread: Is protesting at funerals 'free speech'?

  1. #161
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    Re: Is protesting at funerals 'free speech'?

    So, maybe it's time to amend the Constitution to protect funeral goers from protests? This would solve the problem presented here.

  2. #162
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    Re: Is protesting at funerals 'free speech'?

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    Is it heck a logical fallacy. You are avoiding looking at the situation because that is what the situation is.

    and I am referring to all the goings on of these people I have seen at funerals.
    Whether or not I've lost a loved one is irrelevant to the discussion. Your argument "Have you lost a loved one" is a fallacy known as appeal to pity (http://www.nizkor.org/features/falla...l-to-pity.html). We are discussing whether a protest at a funeral is free speech, not conducting a grief and loss survey/support group.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 04-14-10 at 04:59 PM.

  3. #163
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    Re: Is protesting at funerals 'free speech'?

    Quote Originally Posted by MyOwnDrum View Post
    So, maybe it's time to amend the Constitution to protect funeral goers from protests? This would solve the problem presented here.
    WE should do it in Florida. It can go next to the constitutional amendments dictating the size of cages holding pregnant pigs and setting class sizes by age.

  4. #164
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    Re: Is protesting at funerals 'free speech'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Do you feel like a biscuit?

    Do you feel like velvet?

    It's an easy, unambiguous question.



    It's also completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
    I feel like crap. Kinda mushy and lumpy. Like I'm being flushed into hell.

  5. #165
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    Re: Is protesting at funerals 'free speech'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    True dat. But I resent the term hillbilly stupid. Most of my relatives are intelligent enough to let such comments slide off them like water off a duck.
    Farmer Tan Stupid? Redneck Stupid? Tiger Woods Loving Stupid? I have back-ups.

  6. #166
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    Re: Is protesting at funerals 'free speech'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Whether or not I've lost a loved one is irrelevant to the discussion. We are discussing whether a protest at a funeral is free speech, not conducting a grief and loss survey/support group. hope that helps,sweetie.
    That may be the title of the thread but the thread has gone into the implications of the effect of the right to hurl obscenities at people while going to or coming out of a funeral.

    It has already been mentioned by one poster that your constitution already recognises that there may be limits to free speech and from what he said if not on this occasion then certainly on others it has been transgressed.

    Possibly if one does not have the ability to have empathy or to imagine what it is like one may just think that a funeral is just like any other day.

    If one is unable to imagine how one would feel were this to be done at the funeral of those one loves most, it is difficult to see how they could come to a rational decision.

    There are two issues and two rights here.

    The right to hurl abuses

    The right to peace while you take your loved ones to their funeral and go home after.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

  7. #167
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    Re: Is protesting at funerals 'free speech'?

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    That may be the title of the thread but the thread has gone into the implications of the effect of the right to hurl obscenities at people while going to or coming out of a funeral.

    It has already been mentioned by one poster that your constitution already recognises that there may be limits to free speech and from what he said if not on this occasion then certainly on others it has been transgressed.

    Possibly if one does not have the ability to have empathy or to imagine what it is like one may just think that a funeral is just like any other day.

    If one is unable to imagine how one would feel were this to be done at the funeral of those one loves most, it is difficult to see how they could come to a rational decision.

    There are two issues and two rights here.

    The right to hurl abuses

    The right to peace while you take your loved ones to their funeral and go home after.
    Do celebrities have the right to bring their newborns home without being nearly trampled by rude papparazi hurling rude questions about affairs? There is no precedent for your worries.

  8. #168
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    Re: Is protesting at funerals 'free speech'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    My concern here is that the subjective nature of all of this will eventually lead to the notion that we have a "freedom from being offended", because to cause offense is to bring harm.
    That concern completely ignores the location/situation specific aspects of argument being presented, though.

    If it were merely a "freedom from offense" argument, the words would be prevented anywhere, as they can always have the potential to cause offense.

    This is more than just freedom from being offended. This is freedom form having to deal with people deliberately trying to inflict emotional harm on you during a time of bereavement.

    What everyone needs to understand that there is no such thing as "measurable" harm. Harm to the individual cannot be quantified by any means. There's no such thing as a harm unit. You can't measure it. You can document it, such as "The bullet entered through his left side, lacerated his kidney, broke through his spinal column, severed his spine, and exited through his lower back" but you can't measure it. You can't say "The bullet inflicted 16 units of harm to his left side, 42 units of harm to his kidney and 68 units of harm to his vertebrae, 22 units of harm to his spine and 32.3 units of harm to his back upon exit".

    Therefore, the documentability of the harm is important, not the measurablity.

    Simply being offended by a statement would not be likely, in most cases, to cause documentable emotional harm. It will cause emotional discomfort, at worst, in most cases. Thus, protesting somewhere other than a soldier's funeral with a "Thank God for Dead soldiers" sign, would not, in and of itself, be likely to cause emotional harm because more often than not, the only thing that will occur is personal offense.

    However, someone gloating about the death of a loved one outside of their funeral is a different story altogether. Protesting outside of a soldier's funeral with a "Thank God for Dead soldiers" or "You sons are burning in Hell" sign are likely to cause documentable emotional harm. In almost all cases, some harm will be inflicted, and in many cases, these types of sign may incite a breach of the peace simply by being uttered where they are uttered.

    The situation-specific nature of whether or not the words are harmful precludes the slippery slope nature of your concerns. It makes it non-subjective. It's actually very objective because such things cannot be twisted to include simply taking offense.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  9. #169
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    Re: Is protesting at funerals 'free speech'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flea View Post
    Do celebrities have the right to bring their newborns home without being nearly trampled by rude papparazi hurling rude questions about affairs? There is no precedent for your worries.
    it is not the same thing at all and celebrities usually love the limelight anyway. Now if you think that at the funeral of say Princess Dianna these phelps people would be there hurling abuses and obscenities and assuming her funeral was in the United States, what exactly do you think would happen?

    Please remember the people who the phelps abuse have done no wrong.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

  10. #170
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    Re: Is protesting at funerals 'free speech'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    WE should do it in Florida. It can go next to the constitutional amendments dictating the size of cages holding pregnant pigs and setting class sizes by age.
    Sounds good to me...

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