View Poll Results: Does it matter if we a christian nation?

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Thread: Does it matter if we a christian nation?

  1. #41
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    Re: Does it matter if we a christian nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post


    That depends on who you ask.

    God would say 'all of them.'
    Nice deflect, I think you know the answer. Not some invisible leprechaun, the law of the land. In all the States, with all their "religious" preambles, how many of the 10 commandments are law? It was a simple question, either you were too daft to follow or you know exactly the answer and don't like it. Which is it?

    3, 3 of the 10 commandments, the backbone of Christian law, are actual law in the US. Murder, Theft, Witness (and that one is only illegal in court of law). How are we a Christian nation? I mean, I though that was the mindset of the time. Yet 30% of the Commandments, a base tenet of Christianity, is illegal. So much for us being a Christian nation.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  2. #42
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    Cool Re: Does it matter if we a christian nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Nice deflect, I think you know the answer. Not some invisible leprechaun, the law of the land. In all the States, with all their "religious" preambles, how many of the 10 commandments are law? It was a simple question, either you were too daft to follow or you know exactly the answer and don't like it. Which is it?

    3, 3 of the 10 commandments, the backbone of Christian law, are actual law in the US. Murder, Theft, Witness (and that one is only illegal in court of law). How are we a Christian nation? I mean, I though that was the mindset of the time. Yet 30% of the Commandments, a base tenet of Christianity, is illegal. So much for us being a Christian nation.
    Again, I don't have a dog in this fight. I voted that it doesn't matter.

    However, I do believe the nation was founded and intentionally so as a "Christian nation." That only 30% of the commandments ever got enacted into law doesn't surprise me in the least. As even the most ardent Christians I know (and have ever known) will tell you,... that you have to come to your beliefs willingly and without being forced.

    Couple that sentiment with the fact that most people (percentage) who claim to 'believe in God' and such,... who make up more than half the nation's population,.... do not necessarily walk the talk,... and there's no surprise at all that only 30% of the commandments got made into law.

    We can be a crappy example of what a 'Christian Nation' should look like,... and still be one.

  3. #43
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    Re: Does it matter if we a christian nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    1: If you look at the poll results, you will see that I voted "it doesn't matter" that this (the U.S.) was founded as a Christian Nation.

    2: As for the rest of your rant,... why would a non Christian government give thanks to the Christian GOD in such an official document as the State's Constitutions,... if not to recognize his (perceived) role in the founding of the nation?

    I digress,... I have bigger fish to fry.
    I already stated it. You shouldn't start cooking another dish until you have properly cooked this one, unless you just want to have a bunch of crappy meals, that is.

  4. #44
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    Re: Does it matter if we a christian nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    Again, I don't have a dog in this fight. I voted that it doesn't matter.

    However, I do believe the nation was founded and intentionally so as a "Christian nation." That only 30% of the commandments ever got enacted into law doesn't surprise me in the least. As even the most ardent Christians I know (and have ever known) will tell you,... that you have to come to your beliefs willingly and without being forced.

    Couple that sentiment with the fact that most people (percentage) who claim to 'believe in God' and such,... who make up more than half the nation's population,.... do not necessarily walk the talk,... and there's no surprise at all that only 30% of the commandments got made into law.

    We can be a crappy example of what a 'Christian Nation' should look like,... and still be one.
    It because the construct of our government is not based upon "Christian" values, but rather on political theory which had developed which emphasized the importance of natural rights. the 30% is actually coincidental, as we made it illegal not because some god said so but because those 3 infringe upon the rights of others, including that of fair trial (which is the witness). Our laws are not based on laws of god, but rather laws of man which respect the natural rights of the individual. Just because the populace may be a majority of Christian does not make our government anything other than secular; as it was intended from the beginning.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  5. #45
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    fyi Re: Does it matter if we a christian nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It because the construct of our government is not based upon "Christian" values, but rather on political theory which had developed which emphasized the importance of natural rights. the 30% is actually coincidental, as we made it illegal not because some god said so but because those 3 infringe upon the rights of others, including that of fair trial (which is the witness). Our laws are not based on laws of god, but rather laws of man which respect the natural rights of the individual. Just because the populace may be a majority of Christian does not make our government anything other than secular; as it was intended from the beginning.
    The significance of the fact that 45 out of 50 State's preambles refer to God in one aspect or another is (to me) a significant indicator of the fact that this is (was intended to be) a Christian nation. (again- it speaks to context)

    Imagine trying to get that wording into the State's preambles today.

    Even with the majority of the population claiming to be 'Christian',....

    You wouldn't have a chance.

    This is my last on it.... I have no more interest in the issue. You can have the last word on it.

  6. #46
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    Re: Does it matter if we a christian nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    why would a non Christian government give thanks to the Christian GOD in such an official document as the State's Constitutions,... if not to recognize his (perceived) role in the founding of the nation?
    They didn't. They gave thanks to a generic "creator". Not all of the founders were Christians. Some were deists, atheists, and agnostics, but most did believe in some kind of supreme being (which was obviously a strong norm for the time, so it wasn't even that outstanding).

    But back to the subject, my points are that:

    1. The 1st Amendment speaks for itself. The US was (among) the 1st nations to ever explicitly disallow the govt to establish a state religion. Even many of the countries in Europe still have Christianity as the state religion, so the US is a much more secular govt. in that area.

    2. The US is a Christian nation in that most Americans claim to be Christians. The US is not an officially Christian nation because the 1st Amendment created a secular govt which was intended to stay out of religious matters. That sums it up the best.

    2. Regardless of the 1st Amendment, if the US were to establish a state religion, that would go sour (just like all theocratic govts do) and I would oppose it for obvious reasons (like most of the American People would)

  7. #47
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    Re: Does it matter if we a christian nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    The significance of the fact that 45 out of 50 State's preambles refer to God in one aspect or another is (to me) a significant indicator of the fact that this is (was intended to be) a Christian nation. (again- it speaks to context)

    Imagine trying to get that wording into the State's preambles today.

    Even with the majority of the population claiming to be 'Christian',....

    You wouldn't have a chance.

    This is my last on it.... I have no more interest in the issue. You can have the last word on it.
    And I shall. The significance of the fact that only 30% of the 10 commandments correspond to actual law is a significant indicator of the fact that this was intended to be a secular government.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  8. #48
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    mad Re: Does it matter if we a christian nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Toothpicvic View Post
    They didn't. They gave thanks to a generic "creator". Not all of the founders were Christians. Some were deists, atheists, and agnostics, but most did believe in some kind of supreme being (which was obviously a strong norm for the time, so it wasn't even that outstanding).

    But back to the subject, my points are that:

    1. The 1st Amendment speaks for itself. The US was (among) the 1st nations to ever explicitly disallow the govt to establish a state religion. Even many of the countries in Europe still have Christianity as the state religion, so the US is a much more secular govt. in that area.

    2. The US is a Christian nation in that most Americans claim to be Christians. The US is not an officially Christian nation because the 1st Amendment created a secular govt which was intended to stay out of religious matters. That sums it up the best.

    2. Regardless of the 1st Amendment, if the US were to establish a state religion, that would go sour (just like all theocratic govts do) and I would oppose it for obvious reasons (like most of the American People would)


    You are actually going to make me thank this post,... aren't you.

    (reading again)

    (again)

    Marking the calender.

  9. #49
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    Re: Does it matter if we a christian nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post


    You are actually going to make me thank this post,... aren't you.

    (reading again)

    (again)

    Marking the calender.
    Nothing else? Thats it? The State Constitution argument was you main one and you just fold. That was easy.

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    rolleyes Re: Does it matter if we a christian nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flea View Post
    Nothing else? Thats it? The State Constitution argument was you main one and you just fold. That was easy.
    Believe as you wish...

    In my opinion, ToothPicVic nailed it...


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