View Poll Results: Does it matter if we a christian nation?

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Thread: Does it matter if we a christian nation?

  1. #31
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    Re: Does it matter if we a christian nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    One thing;

    Context.

    The preambles (and the consensus required to get them ratified with their perspective Constitutions at the time) prove that this nation was in fact deliberately established as a "Christian Nation." The context of the preables quoted are undeniable.
    Nope. The context has nothing to do with it unless they made God/Christianity part of the actual Constitutions, meaning Law. They're free to talk about God all they like. They're free to be as religious as they like. If they don't include Religion into Law, then Religion is separate from Law, ie The State. If they are separate, then it is not established.

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    Re: Does it matter if we a christian nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by USA-1 View Post
    Then why the insults?
    My first response about idiotic was not intended to be insultive. Sorry. It was intended to be like, "dude, that is a retarded thing to say even in jest" as you would over a beer. It IS idiotic. Not it is IDIOTIC. I have to say though, that your first post I had no idea if you were being sarcastic, but the second one obviously was. Whateva'. Miscommunication. Let's move on.

  3. #33
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    Cool Re: Does it matter if we a christian nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flea View Post
    Nope. The context has nothing to do with it unless they made God/Christianity part of the actual Constitutions, meaning Law. They're free to talk about God all they like. They're free to be as religious as they like. If they don't include Religion into Law, then Religion is separate from Law, ie The State. If they are separate, then it is not established.
    What purpose could it possibly serve (if not to inform the reader that this is a Christian nation or at the very least a Christian State),.... to put that specific wording into the preambles of 45 State's Constitutions?

    The preamble is what sets the context for the way in which the rest of a document is written. You understand that, don't you?

    Preamble

    –noun
    1. an introductory statement; preface; introduction.
    2. the introductory part of a statute, deed, or the like, stating the reasons and intent of what follows.
    Last edited by Chuz Life; 04-12-10 at 04:00 PM.

  4. #34
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    Re: Does it matter if we a christian nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    What purpose could it possibly serve (if not to inform the reader that this is a Christian nation or at the very least a Christian State),.... to put that specific wording into the preables of 45 State's Constitutions?

    The preamble is what sets the context for the way in which the rest of a document is written. You understand that, don't you?

    Preamble

    –noun
    1. an introductory statement; preface; introduction.
    2. the introductory part of a statute, deed, or the like, stating the reasons and intent of what follows.
    Here is the preamble of the US Constitution. Where in it does it once mention God or Religion?

    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America

    This is the one Preamble that actually matters.

    Also, let's actually look at the use of God in some of the state constitutions:

    CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF ARKANSAS
    (1874)
    Preamble

    We, the people of the State of Arkansas, grateful to Almighty God for the privilege of choosing our own form of government, for our civil and religious liberty, and desiring to perpetuate its blessings and secure the same to our selves and posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution.


    Grateful for the privilege for choosing a non-religious government. Invoking the name of God means nothing.

    CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF ARIZONA
    (1911)
    Preamble

    We, the people of the State of Arizona, grateful to Almighty God for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution.
    CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF CONNECTICUT
    (1818)
    Preamble

    We, the people of the State of Connecticut acknowledging with gratitude, the good providence of God, in having permitted them to enjoy a free government, do, in order more effectually to define, secure, and perpetuate the liberties, rights and privileges which they have derived from their ancestors; hereby, after a careful consideration and revision, ordain and establish the following constitution and form of civil government.

    CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF FLORIDA
    (As revised in 1968 and amended to 1975)
    Preamble

    We, the people of the State of Florida, being grateful to Almighty God for our constitutional liberty, in order to secure its benefits, perfect our government, insure domestic tranquility, maintain public order, and guarantee equal civil and political rights to all, do ordain and establish this constitution.

    CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF GEORGIA
    (As amended through the November 1998 general election)
    Preamble

    To perpetuate the principles of free government, insure justice to all, preserve peace, promote the interest and happiness of the citizen and of the family, and transmit to posterity the enjoyment of liberty, we the people of Georgia, relying upon the protection and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish this Constitution.
    Each one of these, and many others, has nothing to do with God and government. They are thanking God for the ability to be free and to choose their own form of gevernment. Sorry, you are way off base here.

  5. #35
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    Re: Does it matter if we a christian nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    The State Constitutions are...Unconstitutional?
    by Dave Miller, Ph.D.


    The claim that the Founders and Framers of America, with its constitutions of government, intended “separation of church and state” will surely go down in history as one of the premiere myths of our day (organic evolution ranking near the top as well).

    The truth is that the Founders intended for God and Christianity, with its critical principles of morality, to remain woven into the fabric of public life—including our civil government, public schools, and community at large. Proof of this observation abounds. For example, consider the state constitutions. Of the 50 present state constitutions, 46 have “preambles.” And 45 of those 46 preambles make explicit, even passionate, appeals to the God of the Bible! Here they are in alphabetical order (see “U.S. State...,” 2003):
    That's not the Constitution, which was the document written by the founders. While they could have had imput into their own individual state constitution, the one which they all ratified was that of the Constitution. And in that document, which created the federal government and was presented along side of the Bill of Rights; you will find no mention of any god. The government was always meant to be secular.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #36
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    joke Re: Does it matter if we a christian nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flea View Post
    Here is the preamble of the US Constitution. Where in it does it once mention God or Religion?

    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America

    This is the one Preamble that actually matters.

    Also, let's actually look at the use of God in some of the state constitutions:

    CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF ARKANSAS
    (1874)
    Preamble

    We, the people of the State of Arkansas, grateful to Almighty God for the privilege of choosing our own form of government, for our civil and religious liberty, and desiring to perpetuate its blessings and secure the same to our selves and posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution.

    Grateful for the privilege for choosing a non-religious government. Invoking the name of God means nothing.

    Each one of these, and many others, has nothing to do with God and government. They are thanking God for the ability to be free and to choose their own form of gevernment. Sorry, you are way off base here.
    1: If you look at the poll results, you will see that I voted "it doesn't matter" that this (the U.S.) was founded as a Christian Nation.

    2: As for the rest of your rant,... why would a non Christian government give thanks to the Christian GOD in such an official document as the State's Constitutions,... if not to recognize his (perceived) role in the founding of the nation?

    I digress,... I have bigger fish to fry.

  7. #37
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    Re: Does it matter if we a christian nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    2: As for the rest of your rant,... why would a non Christian government give thanks to the Christian GOD in such an official document as the State's Constitutions,... if not to recognize his (perceived) role in the founding of the nation?
    Propaganda.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  8. #38
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    Cool Re: Does it matter if we a christian nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    That's not the Constitution, which was the document written by the founders. While they could have had imput into their own individual state constitution, the one which they all ratified was that of the Constitution. And in that document, which created the federal government and was presented along side of the Bill of Rights; you will find no mention of any god. The government was always meant to be secular.
    I provided the quotes to the preambles to help illustrate the context... the 'setting' or the mindset of the people during the founding of the nation.

    You can deny the relevancy of the use of Christian references in so many of the State's Constitutions,... but you can't deny that they are there.

    I have nothing to gain by convincing you of the significance of the wording the States ratified. I offer it only to illustrate the mindset at the time the documents were written.
    Last edited by Chuz Life; 04-12-10 at 04:27 PM.

  9. #39
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    Re: Does it matter if we a christian nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    I provided the quotes to the preambles to help illustrate the context... the 'setting' or the mindset of the people during the founding of the nation.

    You can deny the relevancy of the use of Christian references in so many of the State's Constitutions,... but you can't deny that they are there.

    I have nothing to gain by convincing you of the significance of the wording the States ratified. I offer it only to illustrate the mindset at the time the documents were written.
    How many of the 10 commandments are law?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Cool Re: Does it matter if we a christian nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    How many of the 10 commandments are law?


    That depends on who you ask.

    God would (most likely) say 'all of them.'

    And that would be the very same God who was mentioned in all those State's preambles,... by the way.
    Last edited by Chuz Life; 04-12-10 at 04:36 PM.

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