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Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

Should/Can libertarianism work?

  • Yes of course but first we need to become more known.

    Votes: 18 31.6%
  • Yes but we will never get elected.

    Votes: 5 8.8%
  • No and I'm damn glad of it.

    Votes: 27 47.4%
  • No because we will never get well known/enough votes.

    Votes: 7 12.3%

  • Total voters
    57
How can you call any of those libertarian?

You're comparing state capitalism with libertarianism.
They are not the same thing.

How I can call Pinochet and Thatcher libertarians?

The main interest of libertarian policies are the economy. Although you once in a while hear a libertarian come out in favour of relaxing drug laws or legalizing gay marriage the thing that libertarians are concerned about is economic policy. There is nothing wrong with that by the way - after all economic policy is extremely important.

I call Pinochet and Thatcher libertarians because of their economic policies who were very libertarian. Just as you might call someone "green" if he is strongly in favour of preventing climate change and protecting the environment, although he doesn't agree with all tenets of the Green Party.
 
How I can call Pinochet and Thatcher libertarians?

The main interest of libertarian policies are the economy. Although you once in a while hear a libertarian come out in favour of relaxing drug laws or legalizing gay marriage the thing that libertarians are concerned about is economic policy. There is nothing wrong with that by the way - after all economic policy is extremely important.

I call Pinochet and Thatcher libertarians because of their economic policies who were very libertarian. Just as you might call someone "green" if he is strongly in favour of preventing climate change and protecting the environment, although he doesn't agree with all tenets of the Green Party.

Libertarian economic policy is freedom to achieve, that is a far cry away from crony capitalism/corporatism.

I think you need to learn more about libertarians.

You don't understand that economic policy is tied to every single thing on the planet.
You can't be free with a restricted economy.
 
The notion that there should be miniscule government intervention in a free market economy makes me wonder what libertarians think about unethical activity like corporatism, living wage, working conditions, et al

I'm personally not interested in legislating ethics or morality. Both are completely relative.
 
I think the Libertarian Party is just a distraction.

It would be my preference that they unite behind Ron Paul, and mobilize to take back the GOP, which was founded on many of the ideas that libertarians hold dear.

Anything other than that is going to be a hard and long fight.

I know I will and I know 90% of the Libertarians would too! At least 90%!

I dont think the people that voted NO... know what we stand for!

All conservatives should recognize us as superior to Republicans.
 
Of course libertarian policies work.

Freedom is what built this country.

Duh.

Freedom doesn't build anything. Now or ever. Freedom provides a secure space where people can build their own dreams.
 
Libertarian economic policy is freedom to achieve, that is a far cry away from crony capitalism/corporatism.

I think you need to learn more about libertarians.

You don't understand that economic policy is tied to every single thing on the planet.
You can't be free with a restricted economy.

Or, as Isaac Asimov accurately described libertarianism. "I have the freedom to get rich and you have the freedom to starve."
 
This is a multi-faceted question.

First, there is not simply one type of libertarian. You've got your extreme ones that are closer to anarchists, your more moderate ones that realize there is a place for government and account for the reality of modern days, you have your hawkish ones, etc. However, since it says Libertarian Party we'll go for a more generic middle road libertarian.

In that case I would say it depends greatly on the time span that said policies would need to be enacted and whether said Libertarian actually has the forethought of dealing with reality rather than ideals, something many simply do not. I think a gradual removal of old policies that run counter to the libertarian philosophy as libertarian policies are pushed COULD potentially work. However, if they instead went for a quick say...4 year roll out of their policy (and thus roll back of old policy) I think it could potentially cripple the country.

This is of course for a broadscale libertarian policy focus. Individual libertarian policies can have a chance for working here and there far better than the idea of the entire platform at once.
 
Or, as Isaac Asimov accurately described libertarianism. "I have the freedom to get rich and you have the freedom to starve."

You do have the freedom to starve. You also have the freedom not to starve. It's your choice...or is choice a bad thing now?

Sorry if a meritocratic system leaves behind a few lazy douchebags. Subjective touchy-feelyism is a dog that won't hunt.
 
You do have the freedom to starve. You also have the freedom not to starve. It's your choice...or is choice a bad thing now?

Sorry if a meritocratic system leaves behind a few lazy douchebags. Subjective touchy-feelyism is a dog that won't hunt.

the opposition to aiding the lazy douchebags i understand
but ignoring the plight of the children of the lazy douchebags i do not
or a willingness to disregard any other element of our society which needs help thru no fault of their own
that indifference, that willingness to dismiss those unfortunates in very real circumstances may be what prevents the libertarian alternative from gaining traction as a political force
 
Or, as Isaac Asimov accurately described libertarianism. "I have the freedom to get rich and you have the freedom to starve."

Sounds good to me! I love freedom!
 
justabubba said:
the opposition to aiding the lazy douchebags i understand
but ignoring the plight of the children of the lazy douchebags i do not
or a willingness to disregard any other element of our society which needs help thru no fault of their own
that indifference, that willingness to dismiss those unfortunates in very real circumstances may be what prevents the libertarian alternative from gaining traction as a political force

So you're going to overhaul an entire economic and governing system because I show you a couple pictures of homeless kids whose ribs stick out? Sorry, but nobody said life is fair. I'm not about to condone a communist society just so we can shoulder the pain of a few kids who got dealt a crappy hand in life.

Bringing up something like that is just cutting off your nose to spite your face. If you bend over backwards trying to help every soul you can, all the ones that are normally taken care of are going to fall by the wasteside, and your heart will have to bleed over there for a while. Sorry if I don't have enough fingers to plug all the holes in a dam.
 
the opposition to aiding the lazy douchebags i understand
but ignoring the plight of the children of the lazy douchebags i do not
or a willingness to disregard any other element of our society which needs help thru no fault of their own
that indifference, that willingness to dismiss those unfortunates in very real circumstances may be what prevents the libertarian alternative from gaining traction as a political force

How much of your own time and money have you dedicated to ameliorating their plight? Shouldn't you be out there right now? Why are you wasting time on an internet forum when you could be helping children?
 
So you're going to overhaul an entire economic and governing system because I show you a couple pictures of homeless kids whose ribs stick out? Sorry, but nobody said life is fair. I'm not about to condone a communist society just so we can shoulder the pain of a few kids who got dealt a crappy hand in life.

Bringing up something like that is just cutting off your nose to spite your face. If you bend over backwards trying to help every soul you can, all the ones that are normally taken care of are going to fall by the wasteside, and your heart will have to bleed over there for a while. Sorry if I don't have enough fingers to plug all the holes in a dam.

excellent post, revealing why the libertarians - at least the capital L Libertarians - can't make in-roads within the nation's political system. its Libertarian dogma trumps reality
 
justabubba said:
excellent post, revealing why the libertarians - at least the capital L Libertarians - can't make in-roads within the nation's political system. its Libertarian dogma trumps reality

So you condone a reality where no child goes hungry and everyone lives happily and peacefully ever after.

Whatever you got, pass it over here. I don't want to feel any pain either.
 
So you condone a reality where no child goes hungry and everyone lives happily and peacefully ever after.
actually, i heartily embrace a government which is willing to work to see that no child goes hungry and lives in a peaceful environment
in the view of this old fart, if you can't dream it, then you will never accomplish it

Whatever you got, pass it over here. I don't want to feel any pain either.
not a problem; i will rustle up some munchies
 
actually, i heartily embrace a government which is willing to work to see that no child goes hungry and lives in a peaceful environment
in the view of this old fart, if you can't dream it, then you will never accomplish it

Why does it have to be the government? Why don't you organize a charity or something and start cleaning up your part of the country? Why must you force me into your wants by empowering the Federal government?
 
but ignoring the plight of the children of the lazy douchebags i do not
or a willingness to disregard any other element of our society which needs help thru no fault of their own

I can understand it to a point with the general libertarian philosophy, and it is the difference between a more emotional focused ideology compared to one that is more about reason.

While you're shouting "WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" someone actually is, and more than just that single child. They're thinking about the children that have since grown up, they're thinking about the children that will come in the future, they are thinking the children that even with all our help are still going to be needy.

The theory is that the more you subsidize bad behavior, the more you make bad behavior able to be sustained to an adequette level ,then the more bad behavior you will get.

To take such a macro idea more to a micro representation shrink it down into a few. You have one person that's completely lazy but popping out kids. Why "punish" the kids (such wonderful use of emotional laced words) for the parents irresponsability. Lets let the Parent keep the kid, but subsidize them with money and health care (of course hoping the money actually all goes to helping the kid).

But once you do that you then have two people who have a penhanct for laziness, but previously had drive to work despite it to support their kids. They now see they can be lazy AND support their kids, so consiously or subconsiously allow themselves to fall into that. Naturally we must THINK OF THE CHILDREN! so government takes more money from everyone else to take care of those two peoples kids, along with the first persons.

And this continues, onward and onward. More money must be taken from more people to be given to more and more people who are doing nothing to deserve that money under the guise of "helping the children" even though there's no garauntee all that money is even going TO the children's well being. All while breading a notion that if you can't or don't want to succeed the government can and will pick you up and make life livable, and with that understanding pushing what the definition of "livable" is wider and wider with each passing initiative.

Yes, Libertarian ideals would cause some problem "For the children!!!!" if enact right off. In part though that is only because of the rampant growth of the problem due to non-libertarian policies essentially rewarding irresponsability over the years.

The theory is that while the children in the immediete present would suffer, over time the amount of children in such a situation as to require such help would be severely reduced while also providing less reason for the government to be taking more money and freedom from those children and their childrens children as they grow older.

Conversely you can continue to reward negative behavior and continue to increase the amount of kids in a bad situation while also sucking the lifeblood from every actual working person in the country.

From the libertarian way of thinking, that seems to be the option. Understand the inevitable unfortunante short term negatives in exchange for addressing the root problem thus having less problematic situations in the future and more freedom for the rest of the population, or, continue to deal with the symptoms rather than the sickness which continues its growing and spreading nature on the backs of the rest of society.

Essentially, the Libertarian view is looking at this from a multiple generation stand point and what will help "the chlidren" of now, tomorrow, and tomorrow's tomorrow both as children and as adults where as the other view point is simply looking at the here and now and to hell with the future.
 
actually, i heartily embrace a government which is willing to work to see that no child goes hungry and lives in a peaceful environment
in the view of this old fart, if you can't dream it, then you will never accomplish it

Frankly I find it sad that if you're going to dream something your DREAM is that the government does this and not the people themselves.
 
I can understand it to a point with the general libertarian philosophy, and it is the difference between a more emotional focused ideology compared to one that is more about reason.

While you're shouting "WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" someone actually is, and more than just that single child. They're thinking about the children that have since grown up, they're thinking about the children that will come in the future, they are thinking the children that even with all our help are still going to be needy.

The theory is that the more you subsidize bad behavior, the more you make bad behavior able to be sustained to an adequette level ,then the more bad behavior you will get.

To take such a macro idea more to a micro representation shrink it down into a few. You have one person that's completely lazy but popping out kids. Why "punish" the kids (such wonderful use of emotional laced words) for the parents irresponsability. Lets let the Parent keep the kid, but subsidize them with money and health care (of course hoping the money actually all goes to helping the kid).

But once you do that you then have two people who have a penhanct for laziness, but previously had drive to work despite it to support their kids. They now see they can be lazy AND support their kids, so consiously or subconsiously allow themselves to fall into that. Naturally we must THINK OF THE CHILDREN! so government takes more money from everyone else to take care of those two peoples kids, along with the first persons.

And this continues, onward and onward. More money must be taken from more people to be given to more and more people who are doing nothing to deserve that money under the guise of "helping the children" even though there's no garauntee all that money is even going TO the children's well being. All while breading a notion that if you can't or don't want to succeed the government can and will pick you up and make life livable, and with that understanding pushing what the definition of "livable" is wider and wider with each passing initiative.

Yes, Libertarian ideals would cause some problem "For the children!!!!" if enact right off. In part though that is only because of the rampant growth of the problem due to non-libertarian policies essentially rewarding irresponsability over the years.

The theory is that while the children in the immediete present would suffer, over time the amount of children in such a situation as to require such help would be severely reduced while also providing less reason for the government to be taking more money and freedom from those children and their childrens children as they grow older.

Conversely you can continue to reward negative behavior and continue to increase the amount of kids in a bad situation while also sucking the lifeblood from every actual working person in the country.

From the libertarian way of thinking, that seems to be the option. Understand the inevitable unfortunante short term negatives in exchange for addressing the root problem thus having less problematic situations in the future and more freedom for the rest of the population, or, continue to deal with the symptoms rather than the sickness which continues its growing and spreading nature on the backs of the rest of society.

Essentially, the Libertarian view is looking at this from a multiple generation stand point and what will help "the chlidren" of now, tomorrow, and tomorrow's tomorrow both as children and as adults where as the other view point is simply looking at the here and now and to hell with the future.

You deserve an award for best understanding non libertarian.
Great post.

Especially the last paragraph.
 
Frankly I find it sad that if you're going to dream something your DREAM is that the government does this and not the people themselves.

dont the people elect the government? :2razz:
 
So your superior system of governance is?

It leaves people generally to themselves. If they want to form a business, let them form a business. If they want to form a commune, let them form a commune. It leaves people to follow their own self-interest as long as they don't impose force on anyone else. Of course people will still be influenced by economic and social trends, but that is inevitable in any system. Government has its place, but I believe that place is reletively small.
 
It leaves people generally to themselves. If they want to form a business, let them form a business. If they want to form a commune, let them form a commune. It leaves people to follow their own self-interest as long as they don't impose force on anyone else. Of course people will still be influenced by economic and social trends, but that is inevitable in any system. Government has its place, but I believe that place is reletively small.

I definately am libertarian in that regard as well. My biggest point of contention(that keeps me from being a modern libertarian) is my views on economics and to what extent the government needs to play a role. :p
 
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