View Poll Results: Should/Can libertarianism work?

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  • Yes of course but first we need to become more known.

    28 31.82%
  • Yes but we will never get elected.

    10 11.36%
  • No and I'm damn glad of it.

    42 47.73%
  • No because we will never get well known/enough votes.

    8 9.09%
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Thread: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

  1. #41
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gander View Post
    Far-right!? The Founding Fathers and Adam Smith are "far-right"?

    And Friedman is hardly an anarcho-capitalist, as he fully supports the existence of a central bank which implements monetary policy via a FIAT currency. Hardly an anarcho-capitalist...
    Well, Adam smith and friedman are definately far-right, just not libertarian i guess, more moderate when it comes to social authority. No, the founding fathers, for their time, were radical left, championing anti-monarchist and anti-establishment, pro-egalitarian and pro-democratic ideas(at least in terms of social policy). If feudalism and top-down economic models were the status quo, they were moving left into capitalism, but they are present day on the right because they are capitalists and not socialists.
    Last edited by Z3n; 04-11-10 at 03:49 PM.
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  2. #42
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    What does that have to do with a discussion of American politics?

    Someone made a comment about libertarians not being able to win far-left districts. I said, there are no far-left districts, in the U.S. anyway
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  3. #43
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    Well, Adam smith and friedman are definately far-right, just not libertarian i guess, more moderate when it comes to social authority. No, the founding fathers, for their time, were radical left, championing anti-monarchist and anti-establishment, pro-egalitarian and pro-democratic ideas
    You can say they were "far-left" by your definition, but spectrums also change. I would say that the founding fathers were just fed up with a monarchy and wanted to start a democracy. It wasn't that they were anti-monarchy or anarchists because their goal wasn't to destroy the UK's monarchy. Their goal was to gain independence from the Brits and create a Democratic Republic.

  4. #44
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    For me, Haiti is the Libertarian ideal: a place where there are no building standards, no zoning policies, no government regulation of any sort. It is the true laissez faire society.

    The greatest catastrophe in modern times, at least in terms of percentage of population killed, was the recent earthquake in Haiti. Even the Governor's mansion was so ill constructed that it collapsed.

    Whereas Chile had a far more severe earthquake a few weeks later and the death toll it experienced in comparison to Haiti's was minuscule. The difference? Government regulation in the form of building codes, zoning codes, inspections, etc., etc.
    “Real environmentalists live in cities, and they visit what's left of the wilderness as gently and respectfully as possible.” — Donna Moulton, letter to the editor, Tucson Weekly, published on August 23, 2001

  5. #45
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    Someone made a comment about libertarians not being able to win far-left districts. I said, there are no far-left districts, in the U.S. anyway
    In terms of American politics, yes there are. A fair number in California for example. Since we are talking American internal politics, the political spectrum of the rest of the world is irrelevant.
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  6. #46
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    You can say they were "far-left" by your definition, but spectrums also change. I would say that the founding fathers were just fed up with a monarchy and wanted to start a democracy. It wasn't that they were anti-monarchy or anarchists because their goal wasn't to destroy the UK's monarchy. Their goal was to gain independence from the Brits and create a Democratic Republic.
    yea i agree. for their time they were "revolutionaries". And it is hard to classify change into different regime types as a political viewpoint( monarchy is not really on the spectrum anymore)
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  7. #47
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    In terms of American politics, yes there are. A fair number in California for example. Since we are talking American internal politics, the political spectrum of the rest of the world is irrelevant.
    And I'm saying: there are no "FAR"-left areas in the U.S. Look at the definition of far left, and not jut leftist or left-wing
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  8. #48
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Libertarianism is not anarcho-anything. Libertarianism is a minarchist philosophy, and does recognize a power of state to perform actions that fall in the cracks of market failures.

    Libertarianism probably will not exist on a large level for one of the main reasons mentioned early on in the thread - eventually money, in a libertarian construct, will make its way into the hands of a random few who decide to elevate themselves above others, as is a right. The bottom will fall from mouth-breathers who prefer to live an oblivious life and suddenly find themselves unable to make a claim on a welfare state and have it heard in a compassionate way. Libertarianism, in and of itself, cannot interfere with private markets unless it is a clear violation of minarchist law or doesn't prosper on the boundaries of fair trade. It's abhorrent to hear someone who claims they are libertarian to attack corporations because "they're too big". They get big for a reason. If you don't like the way MicroSoft or Wal-Mart runs a business, don't give them your dollars.

    When a populace stops believing everything is a right and is willing to be rewarded in proportion to their skills and personal capital, you will see a libertarian state. Until then, don't hold your breath.

  9. #49
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    Well, Adam smith and friedman are definately far-right, just not libertarian i guess, more moderate when it comes to social authority.
    Dude, "far-right" in comparison to what!? Hippy communists at Berkley and European socialists? This is the United States of America, Jack. Adam Smith and Friedman are free-market capitalists. Nothing "far-right" about that.

    By the way, I'm still waiting for you to retract your earlier assertion about Friedman being "basically an anarcho-capitalist". He's not even close to being an anarcho-capitalist. Retract your false accusation.

    No, the founding fathers, for their time, were radical left, championing anti-monarchist and anti-establishment, pro-egalitarian and pro-democratic ideas.
    Radical left!? They were adamant supporters of the free-market. The Founders cannot be viewed through the classic left/right dichotomy anyway. They were economically conservative and socially liberal. They weren't "far-left" or "far-right".

  10. #50
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Libertarianism is not anarcho-anything. Libertarianism is a minarchist philosophy, and does recognize a power of state to perform actions that fall in the cracks of market failures.

    Libertarianism probably will not exist on a large level for one of the main reasons mentioned early on in the thread - eventually money, in a libertarian construct, will make its way into the hands of a random few who decide to elevate themselves above others, as is a right. The bottom will fall from mouth-breathers who prefer to live an oblivious life and suddenly find themselves unable to make a claim on a welfare state and have it heard in a compassionate way. Libertarianism, in and of itself, cannot interfere with private markets unless it is a clear violation of minarchist law or doesn't prosper on the boundaries of fair trade. It's abhorrent to hear someone who claims they are libertarian to attack corporations because "they're too big". They get big for a reason. If you don't like the way MicroSoft or Wal-Mart runs a business, don't give them your dollars.

    When a populace stops believing everything is a right and is willing to be rewarded in proportion to their skills and personal capital, you will see a libertarian state. Until then, don't hold your breath.
    Libertarianism is to anarchism, as Authoritarianism is to totalitarianism. Just lighter flavors. As you move more and more libertarian, you move closer and closer to anarchy. Same with authoritarian principles, after a while you are a police state.
    Don't tread on me= Don't tread on my corporate masters

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