View Poll Results: Should/Can libertarianism work?

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  • Yes of course but first we need to become more known.

    28 31.82%
  • Yes but we will never get elected.

    10 11.36%
  • No and I'm damn glad of it.

    42 47.73%
  • No because we will never get well known/enough votes.

    8 9.09%
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Thread: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

  1. #291
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    You missed the point. Modern capitalism is the product of a long running collusion of private interests and public interests. Libertarianism's determination to promote the role of the former and demote the role of the latter is based on a dangerous misreading of history and “the underlying realities of how the world works.” It's dangerous when we consider the consequences of a financial system melt down. It's dangerous when we consider the mass contamination of the Gulf of Mexico with raw oil, to name just a couple of recent news items.

    Ah. So our current mess is the result of gov't collusion with private industry, and your solution is more government.

    Don't think so.

    Also, don't confuse corporatism with capitalism. I'm not overly fond of big corporations; most of them couldn't exist in their bloated forms without that gov't collusion you speak of... and what I want to do is remove the gov't collusion and make the market more-free, with only that amount of regulation that is necessary.

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  2. #292
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Ah. So our current mess is the result of gov't collusion with private industry, and your solution is more government.

    Don't think so.

    Also, don't confuse corporatism with capitalism. I'm not overly fond of big corporations; most of them couldn't exist in their bloated forms without that gov't collusion you speak of... and what I want to do is remove the gov't collusion and make the market more-free, with only that amount of regulation that is necessary.
    necessary. We must find a way to quantitatively measure "necessary"
    Don't tread on me= Don't tread on my corporate masters

  3. #293
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    No because they are a contradiction unto themselves.

  4. #294
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Of course libertarian policies are going to work - for the rich and powerful who don't like someone forcing them to act like decent human beings when they prove unwilling to do it themselves.

    Libertarian policies are going to be an absolute disaster to everyone else who will experience a harsher society, fewer protections and more inequalities. All those "evil" government regulations were put in place for a reason. Product safety standards were put in place because the markets was unable to provide safe products by itself, environmental standards were introduced because the private sector did not care a bit about acting responsibly towards non-economic goods like biodiversity or clean air, workplace safety standards were introduced because people got maimed and killed by the private sector's reckless behaviour. Market forces and tort law proved itself ineffective and useless in preventing these things, thus there was a need for government regulation.

    How can one think that things will not return to their prior state if all these regulations are abandoned? Just like Soviet-style communism, the success of libertarianism is dependent upon a new and more moral race of men to replace the current, a thing that will never happen; homo libertaricus is as much a fantasy creation as homo sovieticus.
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  5. #295
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    I don't think libertarian policies could ever work. A libertarian limited government philosophy is compatible to communism. Both are very good in theory but very unpractical. People are not moral enough to be given more liberty in their lives. Plus we need a strong government.
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  6. #296
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I don't think libertarian policies could ever work. A libertarian limited government philosophy is compatible to communism. Both are very good in theory but very unpractical. People are not moral enough to be given more liberty in their lives. Plus we need a strong government.
    See everything right there? Nothing proved. We need a strong government? Not proved. Libertarianism is unpractical? Not proved. People are not moral enough to be given more liberty? Not proved.

    You have a lot to show before you throw around those kinds of claims.

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  7. #297
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    See everything right there? Nothing proved. We need a strong government? Not proved. Libertarianism is unpractical? Not proved. People are not moral enough to be given more liberty? Not proved.

    You have a lot to show before you throw around those kinds of claims.
    It depends on the type of libertarian one is. I know some who are borderline anarchist that want to legalize all drugs and weapons, these such policies would never work. Can we really allow everyone the right to own a weapon? Absolutely not. Having a strong central government is a good thing. Without it we wouldn't have things like the FDA, EPA, welfare, NASA, and other government agencies that benefit us. I would think libertarianism would result in runaway capitalism which leaves a minority insanely rich and everyone else on the poverty line.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
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  8. #298
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Regicollis View Post
    Of course libertarian policies are going to work - for the rich and powerful who don't like someone forcing them to act like decent human beings when they prove unwilling to do it themselves.
    That's pretty much what's going on right now. In case you ever, you know, want to pay attention instead of hurling simplistic notions of other political platforms out the window without much consideration of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Regicollis View Post
    Libertarian policies are going to be an absolute disaster to everyone else who will experience a harsher society, fewer protections and more inequalities. All those "evil" government regulations were put in place for a reason. Product safety standards were put in place because the markets was unable to provide safe products by itself, environmental standards were introduced because the private sector did not care a bit about acting responsibly towards non-economic goods like biodiversity or clean air, workplace safety standards were introduced because people got maimed and killed by the private sector's reckless behaviour. Market forces and tort law proved itself ineffective and useless in preventing these things, thus there was a need for government regulation.
    Some of the government regulations were put in there for a reason. Most government regulations were put in there so government could interject into places it didn't need to be to ensure that the aristocracy and the elite where watched after at the expense of true capitalism and contrive a system they can more easily control. Libertarianism is not anarchism, there is an understanding of some government and some regulation being a necessity. But not all of what we have is necessary and more times than not it's established for protection of the status quo. It's how we ended up in the corporate capitalism state we have now where the government and the entrenched aristocracy rule over government and market. Instead of having proper regulation and letting people fairly participate in the market to succeed or fail by their own power. Additionally, proper consumer pressure is well more effective than government law at elitciting change while preserving choice. If at all possible, the system of local businesses and economy best servo is that of educated consumer choice.

    What we have in your little paragraph here isn't an addressing of libertarian policies or platform. It's someone's incorrect and biased view about what libertarianism brings to the table and nothing short of an emotionalized rant trying to make it seem like libertarians wouldn't do any of this. Like there would be no environmental or labor laws under libertarianism. Only a fool who knows nothing of libertarian policy would say such things. And in such case, said person should keep their mouths shut about libertarian political philosophy till such time as they have educated themselves about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Regicollis View Post
    How can one think that things will not return to their prior state if all these regulations are abandoned? Just like Soviet-style communism, the success of libertarianism is dependent upon a new and more moral race of men to replace the current, a thing that will never happen; homo libertaricus is as much a fantasy creation as homo sovieticus.
    How can one think that by supporting the status quo, we're going to change the status quo? More than your emotionalized rant, one should ask themselves this. Less they are perfectly happy with the big government, big interventionist, big spending, big war, big brother policies the government has been adopting and expanding upon for quite some time. The status quo will not change the status quo.
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  9. #299
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Having a strong central government is a good thing. Without it we wouldn't have things like the FDA, EPA, welfare, NASA, and other government agencies that benefit us.
    I strongly contest the goodness of those programs.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  10. #300
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    I strongly contest the goodness of those programs.
    Well, without them we would live in a polluted cesspool with unhealthy food and drugs. Have you read The Jungle?
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
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