View Poll Results: Should/Can libertarianism work?

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  • Yes of course but first we need to become more known.

    28 31.82%
  • Yes but we will never get elected.

    10 11.36%
  • No and I'm damn glad of it.

    42 47.73%
  • No because we will never get well known/enough votes.

    8 9.09%
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Thread: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

  1. #271
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    So I see that mainstream American Libertarians are for getting rid of government now? Why wasn't I told?
    There is no such thing as "mainstream American Libertarians."

  2. #272
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    The greatest nation in the world -- with slavery, child labor, no regulation of unsafe foods, no public schools, no health care for the poor, and no rights for women.

    Mind you, the competition back then wasn't much better. It's a lot easier to be the Greatest Nation in the World when everyone else is bad, too.
    If they had continued to adhere to libertarian ideals it is far more likely that slavery would have died a natural death and our race relations would be GREATLY improved. Mr Johnsons peculiar institution had already been deemed illegal in several northern states before we even became a country. The importation of slaves had been stopped shortly after we became a country. The transition would have been MUCH more healthy. But because the federal government FORCED an end to slavery (via a 'civil' war) we STILl have people resisting and rebelliing some 150 years later.

    Oh yes...'your' way worked SO much better. Blacks are doing SO WELL in this country.

  3. #273
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    If they had continued to adhere to libertarian ideals it is far more likely that slavery would have died a natural death and our race relations would be GREATLY improved. Mr Johnsons peculiar institution had already been deemed illegal in several northern states before we even became a country. The importation of slaves had been stopped shortly after we became a country. The transition would have been MUCH more healthy. But because the federal government FORCED an end to slavery (via a 'civil' war) we STILl have people resisting and rebelliing some 150 years later.

    Oh yes...'your' way worked SO much better. Blacks are doing SO WELL in this country.
    This is why I can't take libertarians seriously. They live in some sort of Bizarro World where if the government were not involved then things would be perfect and we'd all be holding hands and singing about peace love and understanding.

  4. #274
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    This is why I can't take libertarians seriously. They live in some sort of Bizarro World where if the government were not involved then things would be perfect and we'd all be holding hands and singing about peace love and understanding.
    Bingo. The oh-so-wonderful "private sector" drives our World Economy off a cliff, creates ecological disasters that might NEVER be overcome, SCREAMS to be bailed out by us when PROVED to be absolutely WRONG and then thumbs their nose at us and STEALS even more...

    ... the "private sector" and the teabaggers... proven losers.

  5. #275
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    This is why I can't take libertarians seriously. They live in some sort of Bizarro World where if the government were not involved then things would be perfect and we'd all be holding hands and singing about peace love and understanding.
    Read a little on Pennsylvania...Rhode Island...Delaware...the actual real HISTORY of slavery, not just in the US but in the world...then get back to me.

    Also it might help if you actually UNDERSTAND history. But then...Ive read far too many of your postings, so I get that you are an ideologue...all you see is what you see because it fits your tiny little ideals of right and wrong.

    You DO know that the US didnt invent slavery...dont you? You DO know that it was practiced centuries before any European ever set foot on this land by its aboriginal people...right? You GET of course that slavery was practiced in Europe, Africa, the Americas, EVERYWHERE...right...and that it wasnt evil white people from Europe that landed in this new place and said..."hey...I have an idea..." I dont know if you have ever read the history on who the first person was to actually petition for the right to person ownership in the colonies...THAT makes for a stunning read actually. And you REALLY arent so fooolish as to believe the Civil War was started because the northern states wanted to end slavery because they cared about them and not for economic means. You PROBABLY havent ever read the history of many of the southern leaders who rejected slavery and even worked to change the institution while serving in federal government positions and only went back to the south reluctantly not to defend slavery but to resist the north in its attempt to FORCE the south into compliance with northern and federal rule. They could have been decision and change makers as well.

    The US was already evolving on a societal level...far faster than ANY of our European counterparts. But as is typical with ANY form of forced coersion, the southern states rebelled and we still have the tensions we have today. Its really not that difficult of a concept. Two people can have a logical and progressive debate and exchange of ideals and eventually the right ideals usually win out. But when you tell the other side...change or Im going to kick your ass...well...golly...what happens next...hmmm...I wonder...

    The libertarian model wouldnt have endorsed or condoned slavery. It would have allowed the spread of the anti-slavery movement to overcome the practice. Eventually slavery would have died off and I daresay race relations would be RADICALLY better. Now...of course...thats an OPINION...but as proof I MIGHT point to the fact that we have rampanat unemployment overall in the black communities...that their numbers are grossly overrepresented in prison...that their communities endure a far greater crime rate than any other communities in the country...that the black family has been devastated by democrat policies and ideologies...that put plainly...have NOT served America well.

  6. #276
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Uncola View Post
    Bingo. The oh-so-wonderful "private sector" drives our World Economy off a cliff, creates ecological disasters that might NEVER be overcome, SCREAMS to be bailed out by us when PROVED to be absolutely WRONG and then thumbs their nose at us and STEALS even more...

    ... the "private sector" and the teabaggers... proven losers.
    Greece...the US federal government in a 13.5 trillion dollar hole and counting. Social spending out of control. Cities and even states declaring bankruptcy...Im sorry...I cant stop laughing...at...well...you...actually. Losers...really...losers?

  7. #277
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    This is why I can't take libertarians seriously. They live in some sort of Bizarro World where if the government were not involved then things would be perfect and we'd all be holding hands and singing about peace love and understanding.
    BTW...you REALLY dont understand ANYTHING about libertarian ideals do you. While politically there is a lot to be desired (which you may have seen here..I get called out on because I espouse some radical NON Libertarian ideals that MIGHT actually make the party politically viable...)

    But since you didnt at all address what I actually SAID...let me clue you in. Oh...I have no doubt it will have no impact on YOU...but...here goes...

    libertarians dont believe in NO government...they believe in constitutional government. They believe in appropriate LEVELS of federal, state, and local government. And bytheway...they probably believe much the same as you...for example...

    The federal government should be allowed to dictate reproductive decisions. Right?

    The government SHOULD be jailing people for drug use. Right?

    The federal government SHOULD be monitoring your phone calls...emails...anything sent via the US postal service... Right?

    See...at heart...MOST people are libertartians. But the hypocrites...they WANT federal government involvement when it involves freesources...taking from someone else and giving to them.

    No one is suggesting no laws. No one is suggesting repeal of civil rights laws. All Rand Paul suggested and all I have indicated is that a more healthy, more effective, swifter, change would have occured without federal forced coersion.

  8. #278
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Uncola View Post
    There is no such thing as "mainstream American Libertarians."
    We're weird; that doesn't mean that anymore than a tiny percentage of American Libertarians support no government.
    "Doubleplusungood"

    George Orwell

  9. #279
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Uncola View Post
    There is no such thing as "mainstream American Libertarians."

    Actually there are. Every American who lives their day to day life by the maxims of "minding their own business" and "taking care of their own", who doesn't go out of their way to tell their neighbor what to do or how to live, is a libertarian at heart... most of them just haven't realized it yet.

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  10. #280
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Actually there are. Every American who lives their day to day life by the maxims of "minding their own business" and "taking care of their own", who doesn't go out of their way to tell their neighbor what to do or how to live, is a libertarian at heart... most of them just haven't realized it yet.
    And the mainstream criticism against libertarians follows: Minding to your own business precludes the notion that you are selfish and cannot be trusted to voluntarily contribute to the worse off in society. It's unfortunate but it's true that such a stigma has arisen out of a relatively harmless philosophy( that I somewhat identify with)
    Don't tread on me= Don't tread on my corporate masters

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