View Poll Results: Should/Can libertarianism work?

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  • Yes of course but first we need to become more known.

    28 31.82%
  • Yes but we will never get elected.

    10 11.36%
  • No and I'm damn glad of it.

    42 47.73%
  • No because we will never get well known/enough votes.

    8 9.09%
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Thread: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

  1. #161
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    i think if what you said were actually true, then the japanese, german and presently south korean auto makers would not have been able to gain a foothold in the American auto market
    Lizzie didn't say that this was the only perfectionist culture.
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  2. #162
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    We've never seen masses of people turning to the streets and demanding libertarian policies. Nor have outspoken libertarian parties ever had any electoral success outside of a small segment of true believers. The large-scale experiments with libertarian policies we have has only been possible when combined with a brutal dictatorship as in Chile.

    Those libertarians who have managed to get into power through fair elections have been forced to moderate their policies. For instance even Margaret Thatcher did not dare to abolish the NHS although it would have been a top priority for a libertarian.

    Libertarianism will never become popular. And how should we expect an ideology that patently leads to bad results for everyone but a small elite to win wide popular support?

    Among non-libertarians there is a wide consensus that libertarian policies don't work. I disagree with that notion. I think the dangerous thing about libertarianism is that it is ruthlessly effective. It don't provide any good results for ordinary people and it is an outright disaster for the most unfortunate members of society. But that has never been the objective of libertarianism. If one sees an increase in wealth and privilege for the elite as the main objective of libertarianism then all those insane and anti-democratic policies associated with libertarianism suddenly makes sense - They are weapons in the class war waged by the elite against the rest of society.
    The poor complain; they always do
    But that’s just idle chatter
    Our system brings reward to all
    At least all those who matter.

  3. #163
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Who are the butt-plugs that voted NO?????????
    CORPORATE GREED AND UNION GREED
    DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS
    DESTROYING THE BEST OF AMERICA ONE DAY AT A TIME

    This is the worst kind of discrimination. The kind against ME! ~ Bender

  4. #164
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Regicollis View Post
    We've never seen masses of people turning to the streets and demanding libertarian policies. Nor have outspoken libertarian parties ever had any electoral success outside of a small segment of true believers. The large-scale experiments with libertarian policies we have has only been possible when combined with a brutal dictatorship as in Chile.

    Those libertarians who have managed to get into power through fair elections have been forced to moderate their policies. For instance even Margaret Thatcher did not dare to abolish the NHS although it would have been a top priority for a libertarian.

    Libertarianism will never become popular. And how should we expect an ideology that patently leads to bad results for everyone but a small elite to win wide popular support?

    Among non-libertarians there is a wide consensus that libertarian policies don't work. I disagree with that notion. I think the dangerous thing about libertarianism is that it is ruthlessly effective. It don't provide any good results for ordinary people and it is an outright disaster for the most unfortunate members of society. But that has never been the objective of libertarianism. If one sees an increase in wealth and privilege for the elite as the main objective of libertarianism then all those insane and anti-democratic policies associated with libertarianism suddenly makes sense - They are weapons in the class war waged by the elite against the rest of society.
    How can you call any of those libertarian?

    You're comparing state capitalism with libertarianism.
    They are not the same thing.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  5. #165
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Libertarians don't take human nature into account? That's ironic and comical since the defining work of libertarian economics is a book called Human Action!

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  6. #166
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    I think libertarians in fact do take human nature into account; which is why we are libertarians and not anarchists.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #167
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I think libertarians in fact do take human nature into account; which is why we are libertarians and not anarchists.
    I actually should be an anarchist, but I can't make that leap, and I don't know how others can. The principles of libertarianism work when you don't allow force or fraud. How can it ever work if you leave private companies the use of force? I don't trust them. I don't trust the government much either, but at least they are accountable to us. How exactly does a 3rd party company get control to use force against us? I can't see it working in the context of contract theory.

    But of course, you get into the problems of vigilante justice (the first Death Wish was amazing on this subject, btw), and at times this can be better than the police. But do I trust it on a large-scale level? Hardly. It's just so hard to offer any other argument other than it being a necessary evil because we can't trust private citizens to enforce law.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  8. #168
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Hard to say. They worked fine for the first 100 or so years

    too many people have become addicted to entitlements and nanny state government which was the intent of the New Deal, Great Society etc. Dems created legions of addicts and going cold turkey would cause major upheavels as the parasites, the addicts and those who pander to them would revolt
    Yeah, damn that middle class!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #169
    Sage

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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    No vote, of course.
    IMO, Libertarianism can work, and will work when all men become educated/intelligent/civilized, maybe in the year 3000.
    Today?
    Just look around.

  10. #170
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    I actually should be an anarchist, but I can't make that leap, and I don't know how others can. The principles of libertarianism work when you don't allow force or fraud. How can it ever work if you leave private companies the use of force? I don't trust them. I don't trust the government much either, but at least they are accountable to us. How exactly does a 3rd party company get control to use force against us? I can't see it working in the context of contract theory.

    But of course, you get into the problems of vigilante justice (the first Death Wish was amazing on this subject, btw), and at times this can be better than the police. But do I trust it on a large-scale level? Hardly. It's just so hard to offer any other argument other than it being a necessary evil because we can't trust private citizens to enforce law.
    I see anarchy as the pipe dream and I think that perhaps it's very similar for many libertarians. If everything could be perfect and work out, the best form of government would be anarchy. But human nature as it is, anarchy is not actually feasible. Thus, some amount of government is necessary to secure the rights and the liberties of the People. So I would say that anarchy is the ideal, noting that it can't work in reality, but it's the ideal. I don't think it's a bad ideal, and we can use that as well. While the ideal may not be practical or feasible, we can move towards the ideal; which is where the idea of minarchism comes into play; and where many libertarians lie. It's the minimization of the government and its powers. You need some amount of government, but you shouldn't grow it past that.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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