View Poll Results: Should/Can libertarianism work?

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  • Yes of course but first we need to become more known.

    28 31.82%
  • Yes but we will never get elected.

    10 11.36%
  • No and I'm damn glad of it.

    42 47.73%
  • No because we will never get well known/enough votes.

    8 9.09%
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Thread: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

  1. #121
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    Of course people will always find ways to get by in these conditions. There was a thriving black market in the USSR. That doesn't make Haiti remotely capitalist.

    http://www.heritage.org/index/pdf/20...ries/haiti.pdf
    Is this thread about capitalism or is it about Libertarianism?

    And, look at why the Heritage Institute marks down Haiti! Its government is totally ineffective and corrupt. Well nobody's perfect. It takes 195 days to get a business license? Who the **** needs a ****ing business license? No private property rights enforcement? Boo hoo! Possession is nine tenths of the law. No international finance? Hey, I got your international finance right here!

    Badges? Libertarianism don't need no stinking badges!
    “Real environmentalists live in cities, and they visit what's left of the wilderness as gently and respectfully as possible.” — Donna Moulton, letter to the editor, Tucson Weekly, published on August 23, 2001

  2. #122
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    Is this thread about capitalism or is it about Libertarianism?
    I thought that capitalism was a big part of American style Libertarianism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    And, look at why the Heritage Institute marks down Haiti! Its government is totally ineffective and corrupt. Well nobody's perfect. It takes 195 days to get a business license? Who the **** needs a ****ing business license? No private property rights enforcement? Boo hoo! Possession is nine tenths of the law. No international finance? Hey, I got your international finance right here!
    Well it's kind of hard to have a business if you can't have it legally. The black market isn't exactly welcoming to newcomers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    Badges? Libertarianism don't need no stinking badges!
    ?
    Last edited by DrunkenAsparagus; 04-12-10 at 11:17 PM.
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  3. #123
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    I thought that capitalism was a big part of American style Libertarianism? …
    Are you asking me? Help me to understand how Libertarianism relates to capitalism.
    “Real environmentalists live in cities, and they visit what's left of the wilderness as gently and respectfully as possible.” — Donna Moulton, letter to the editor, Tucson Weekly, published on August 23, 2001

  4. #124
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    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    With the exception of "In most cases, I'm more strict on people(corporations) than any extra regulations." none of that answers my question to you. So I will ask it again:

    So I will ask you the same question, what regulation are you in favor of?

    Environmental?
    Banking/Financial?
    Food?
    Consumer Protection

    That it exists already does not mean you favor it.
    I do favor the regulations that make sense.

    There are some that are crafted to exclude small competitors in favor of existing corporations through compliance costs and exemptions.

    Capitalism requires a legal construct to work correctly, it requires that the law be unbiased.

    Regulations written today do not do that.
    They are usually fluff(to appeal to you and me) or purposefully exclusionary.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  5. #125
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    Are you asking me? Help me to understand how Libertarianism relates to capitalism.
    Is this a serious request? You honestly don't know how capitalism relates to libertarianism?

  6. #126
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    EPA at a reduced level, and pollution credits traded on an open market.
    How reduced? In what areas is it too agressive?

    Are you talking about Cap and Trade?



    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    FDIC, and elimination of 95% of corporate welfare going on at this point in time.
    How about the SEC?


    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    USDA (remove FDA) and expand them slightly to account for a larger variety of products.
    Why would you eliminate the FDA? The agency is much more than approving drugs.



    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    None. Private consumer watchdog groups (maybe a VERY limited BBB).
    Really? You don't think we should be protected from bad foreign products, like toys with lead paint? Dog food with melamine in it? Chinese made drywall? The commission is recommending the IRS allow a deduction for homeowners who's only recourse for now is to replace it out of their own pockets. Private consumer groups don't have the teeth the federal government does. They can alert and call attention, but the agency has the capacity to act to protect consumers more quickly. Further, private watch dog groups cannot enforce laws.

    Enforcement litigates civil contempt and civil penalty actions to enforce all FTC federal court injunctions and administrative orders that address consumer protection issues, including advertising and financial practices, data security, high-tech fraud, and telemarketing and other scams. The Division also coordinates FTC actions with criminal law enforcement agencies through its Criminal Liaison Unit; litigates civil actions against those who defraud consumers; and develops, reviews, and enforces a variety of consumer protection rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I do favor the regulations that make sense.

    There are some that are crafted to exclude small competitors in favor of existing corporations through compliance costs and exemptions.

    Capitalism requires a legal construct to work correctly, it requires that the law be unbiased.

    Regulations written today do not do that.
    They are usually fluff(to appeal to you and me) or purposefully exclusionary.
    What regulations make sense? I agree, there are regulations that favor big corporations. Those need to be eliminated.

    I've given some specific examples. What kind of regulation makes sense in those areas?
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  7. #127
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?
    sure. they are at work every day, whenever you tolerate anyone doing whatever they chose to do until they impose on your ability to do as you want
    and i would submit that we are slowly adapting that libertarian principle to government
    what are the positions Ron Paul espouses with which you disagree. for me, it is only his move to eliminate the fed and adopt a gold standard, and to absent our nation's involvement in the UN. otherwise, i believe his positions make good sense.
    as a libertarian running under the republican banner, Dr. Paul has sown the seed of good governance. he advocates a strong defense but sees no point in funding an empire of costly military installations worldwide. that is in keeping with his position of non-intervention, allowing other states to do as they please such that they do not impair the ability of the USA to do the same.
    his position on israel is realistic:
    There’s one thing being friends, getting along with people and trading with people versus subsidizing them
    he wants to end the sanctions against cuba
    Dr. Paul opposes trade agreements by recognizing such agreements
    serve special interests and big business, not citizens
    he recognizes the lack of immigration enforcement is a drain on our nation's resources
    his warnings about the looming financial crisis and the loss of confidence in the dollar were spot on
    his position to substantially reduce the size of government is something few would oppose
    and he is opposed to victimless crimes - he is for real personal freedom
    my concept of libertarianism was shaped by the early 70's book The Libertarian Alternative; but as with any political view, how we interpret a philosophy differs with each individual's perspective. Ron Paul's view of libertarian principles applied to governance seems to have gained momentum. that allows me to be optimistic that our government will be guided more by libertarian views than liberal or conservative views over time
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  8. #128
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    What regulations make sense? I agree, there are regulations that favor big corporations. Those need to be eliminated.

    I've given some specific examples. What kind of regulation makes sense in those areas?
    Truth in advertising, anti fraud, product liability(in some cases it should be extended to criminal liability), using anti property crime laws for environmental regulation, leverage standards for banks, probably some more I'm not thinking of but those are pretty intuitive.

    I'm not much of a fan of the FDA and see that punitive laws can prevent businesses from doing stupid/criminal things.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  9. #129
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina
    How reduced? In what areas is it too agressive?

    Are you talking about Cap and Trade?
    I am never talking about cap and trade. Those are curse words to libertarians.

    And it is very aggressive. It only needs to tackle the "obvious suspects", or those who pollute more than their fair share - or in a libertarian society, those who pollute more than their credits allow. Regulation to the point we have it now leads us to things like the Kyoto Protocol which was a choke hold on international and global commerce.

    How about the SEC?
    Nope. Do away with it. Some of the functions of the SEC can be performed by the Secret Service, and the rest would be deregulated.

    Why would you eliminate the FDA? The agency is much more than approving drugs.
    The FDA is, without question, the most hostile, useless, and overpowered federal agency/administration we have. For every ounce of good they do, they do a pound of evil. If you need examples, you can easily do a Google search and find some.

    Really? You don't think we should be protected from bad foreign products, like toys with lead paint? Dog food with melamine in it? Chinese made drywall? The commission is recommending the IRS allow a deduction for homeowners who's only recourse for now is to replace it out of their own pockets. Private consumer groups don't have the teeth the federal government does. They can alert and call attention, but the agency has the capacity to act to protect consumers more quickly. Further, private watch dog groups cannot enforce laws.
    You vastly underestimate the power of the educated American consumer. First of all, I would encourage more domestic production for consumption. Every single example you gave was from a foreign good - mostly from China and southeast Asia. Those obviously need to be monitored alot more than American products. Guess what? With reduced oppressive legislation, they'd be cheaper too. Win/win from my perspective.

    The problem I see is that while we were built as a nation whose core individuals existed to suspect and question government and authority, we've become a people who are absolutely complacent and ignorant to what Washington does. Government, for most people, has become a replacement for eyes, ears, and brain. Social Security, from a financial perspective, is an awful investment. Taking TVM into account, you'd make more by sticking it in a low-interest checking account. However, nobody questions it. Nobody challenges it. And that's just what the government wants, because they use Social Security as something akin to a corporate petty cash fund, where they can take from it when they feel like it and maybe pay it back if they felt so inclined (which, to this point, they haven't).

    When you sit around and do nothing, you're a de facto statist. America's laziness brought us to this.

  10. #130
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    Re: Can the Libertarian party or policies ever work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    You vastly underestimate the power of the educated American consumer. First of all, I would encourage more domestic production for consumption. Every single example you gave was from a foreign good - mostly from China and southeast Asia. Those obviously need to be monitored alot more than American products. Guess what? With reduced oppressive legislation, they'd be cheaper too. Win/win from my perspective.
    The obvious question is why are these bad items coming out of china? The most obvious answer is because they have lax regulation. If we reduce our regulation here, our products will be no better.

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