View Poll Results: Does the word democracy upset you?

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  • Yes

    3 11.54%
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    21 80.77%
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    1 3.85%
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    1 3.85%
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Thread: Do you get upset at the word democracy?

  1. #21
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    Re: Do you get upset at the word democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flea View Post
    The problem is in that the elector does not even need to cast their vote as their constituency wants, as happened in the 2000 election. They are known as "Faithless Electors"

    2000 - Barbara Lett-Simmons (Democrat, District of Columbia)
    In the most recent act of Elector abstention, Barbara Lett-Simmons, a Democratic Elector from the District of Columbia, did not cast her vote for Al Gore as expected. Her abstention was meant to protest the lack of Congressional representation for Washington, DC.


    The Electoral College - "Faithless Electors"


    There is a list of the rest, and that is the problem. The people are not truly represented.
    It's not a problem, we elect the electoral college by voting for the representing side, and more often than not they will vote the correct way, 2000 could have just as easily seen someone jump for Bush as well, thankfully, we will never know the horrors that would have been a president Al Gore.
    Last edited by LaMidRighter; 04-10-10 at 01:13 PM.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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  2. #22
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    Re: Do you get upset at the word democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Actually, straight democracy can be highly immoral and result in the trampling of the rights of the minority. Just because the majority wants something at a particular point in time does not mean that what they want will subscribe to liberty and the protection of human rights.

    Remember, the majority of Germany supported the National Socialists.
    Hah, but I have said "the most moral form of regime", meaning out of the forms that exist.

    I have never said that there exists a form of regime that can never be immoral.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

  3. #23
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    Re: Do you get upset at the word democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    It's not a problem, we elect the electoral college by voting for the representing side, and more often than not they will vote the correct way, 2000 could have just as easily seen someone jump for Bush as well, thankfully, we will never know the horrors that would have been a president Al Gore.
    It is a problem. Plain and simple. Just because it has yet to completely negate the will of the people does not mean that it is not a problem. Be serious for a second.

    As bad as Gore might have been, we faced horrors just the same under Bush.

  4. #24
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    Re: Do you get upset at the word democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flea View Post
    It is a problem. Plain and simple. Just because it has yet to completely negate the will of the people does not mean that it is not a problem. Be serious for a second.

    As bad as Gore might have been, we faced horrors just the same under Bush.
    I don't see a problem, for this one instance where an elector jumped ship it didn't matter as the electors already had the process as a Bush win, as well 99.9 percent of the time the electorate falls right in line with the voting process. So this would lead me to believe that there would probably never be a situation in which an electoral college revolt would negate the will of the people.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  5. #25
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    Re: Do you get upset at the word democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I don't see a problem, for this one instance where an elector jumped ship it didn't matter as the electors already had the process as a Bush win, as well 99.9 percent of the time the electorate falls right in line with the voting process. So this would lead me to believe that there would probably never be a situation in which an electoral college revolt would negate the will of the people.
    Probably? That is a lot to leave to chance. This is our nation, our freedom, after all.

    1832 - Thirty-Two Electors (PA, MD)
    all 30 Electors from Pennsylvania refused to support the Democratic Vice Presidential candidate, Martin Van Buren, voting instead for William Wilkins.


    Not sure how this is not viewed as a problem.

  6. #26
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    Re: Do you get upset at the word democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flea View Post
    Probably? That is a lot to leave to chance. This is our nation, our freedom, after all.

    1832 - Thirty-Two Electors (PA, MD)
    all 30 Electors from Pennsylvania refused to support the Democratic Vice Presidential candidate, Martin Van Buren, voting instead for William Wilkins.


    Not sure how this is not viewed as a problem.
    Because of it's rarity. There are blips in any system, so to declare failure because of one or two isn't sufficient IMO. If, say......this happened once every 2-3 elections you'd have a strong point.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  7. #27
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    Re: Do you get upset at the word democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Hah, but I have said "the most moral form of regime", meaning out of the forms that exist.
    I disagree. A constitutional republic is more moral, because it protects the rights of the minority.

  8. #28
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    Re: Do you get upset at the word democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flea View Post
    Probably? That is a lot to leave to chance. This is our nation, our freedom, after all.

    1832 - Thirty-Two Electors (PA, MD)
    all 30 Electors from Pennsylvania refused to support the Democratic Vice Presidential candidate, Martin Van Buren, voting instead for William Wilkins.


    Not sure how this is not viewed as a problem.

    Frankly, the Presidency and the Federal Government should never have become so powerful, that who gets elected President could make us or break us. We're supposed to have limited government and seperation of powers that are intended to protect us even if Dr. Evil wins the Presidency. Some of our Founders actually thought this through, and attempted to create a system that could survive even the incompetent or ill-intentioned. It is our departure from the Constitution that has put us in this mess, not the EC.

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    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

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    Re: Do you get upset at the word democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Because of it's rarity. There are blips in any system, so to declare failure because of one or two isn't sufficient IMO. If, say......this happened once every 2-3 elections you'd have a strong point.
    Not once did I say failure. Try again bud.

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    Re: Do you get upset at the word democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Frankly, the Presidency and the Federal Government should never have become so powerful, that who gets elected President could make us or break us. We're supposed to have limited government and seperation of powers that are intended to protect us even if Dr. Evil wins the Presidency. Some of our Founders actually thought this through, and attempted to create a system that could survive even the incompetent or ill-intentioned. It is our departure from the Constitution that has put us in this mess, not the EC.
    One of my primary objections to Bush the Lesser was that he fundamentally expanded the power of the presidency through the use of executive orders and breaching the rights enshrined in the constitution & bill of rights. The presidency became significantly more powerful during his presidency.

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