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Thread: Would you change your stance on abortion if ...

  1. #41
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    Re: Would you change your stance on abortion if ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aurora151989 View Post
    hmmm when is abortion murder? when the fetus is viable outside the womb, I believe that happens at about 28 weeks, which is about 7 months of pregnancy
    Debatable when it becomes murder, I think that the moment that the baby enters the embrionic stage it becomes murder. For sure when it can be kep alive outside the womb in a hospital.

  2. #42
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    Re: Would you change your stance on abortion if ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aurora151989 View Post
    hmmm when is abortion murder? when the fetus is viable outside the womb, I believe that happens at about 28 weeks, which is about 7 months of pregnancy
    But it must be something more than this. It seems arbitrary to me still. I think that murder has to do with the significance of the 'creature' being killed. What is it about viability that makes the developing human more significant to us than an unviable human?

  3. #43
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    Re: Would you change your stance on abortion if ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Honestly, does nobody see just a bit of a contradiction there?? The inconsistent hypocrisy of it makes my blood boil.
    It's contradictory, but that's human nature. I think you are missing a more important message here, which is that the zygote/fetus only has value once value is placed upon it by someone. It works similar to property. In other words the fetus can have subjective value, or can be subjectively valueless, and it can all be based on desire to reproduce, timing, finances, spiritual values, etc. In nature both conditions exist, and nature doesn't care either way. Pro-life people think that there is objective value and it's based on reasons that don't really translate to people like me who will never cease to see the subjectivity of it, yet they will insist on rules to govern a natural situation.

    In nature even born babies get dumped when a family doesn't want them, and humans do it too. Your story about the blue strip could be applied to them too, or hell, even adults for that matter.

    The value placed on life is completely arbitrary and inconsistent. To me pro-life means you value all life at any stage, which means you shouldn't be in favor of war, capital punishment, murder, abortion, etc. no matter what. But that's not how it works. So you have people who are anti-abortion but pro-execution, pro-war ("torture and kill the terrorists!"), and even condoning an act of murder against a man running an abortion clinic.

    If people want consistency then they should live by it. I find the pro-life sect just as contradictory and hypocritical as the issue you posed.

  4. #44
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    Re: Would you change your stance on abortion if ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Do you understand that, to me, the difference between aborting an unborn, and deciding to kill one's 2 year old, is more a matter of degree than kind? And that I have a problem with killing children without a very good reason?
    Can you understand the difference between aborting an 8 week old, 1.6 centimeter, non-conscious, can't feel pain embryo and a 30 week viable fetus?

    Do you understand that the reason I have a problem with legalized anytime-anywhere-any reason abortion is much the same as why I would oppose the legalization of infanticide?
    I don't have any problems with medically sane limits on abortion that reflect what we know about fetal development.

    It's because I think human life, most especially that most innocent form of human life (babies), should not be taken without an awfully good reason why.
    I would tend to agree with you. But, as a single mom, I really can't take serious risks with my health. Even if I was married, I would not want another child.

  5. #45
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    Re: Would you change your stance on abortion if ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    Nope. Still trying to tell a woman what she should or should not do or have to take in reguards to HER CHILD'S BODY
    Fixed it for you

  6. #46
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    Re: Would you change your stance on abortion if ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Fixed it for you
    This is an interesting comment from you, considering that I was under the impression that you'd forced your ex-wife to abort.

  7. #47
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    Re: Would you change your stance on abortion if ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    Tiresome? Tiresome is having to listening to males that have no clue! The day you can CARRY that around for 9 Months? I may take you serious. Til then? Nope!

    You wanna try your hand at carrying around a something that was the result of incest or rape? I bet you would not be so frigging pro-life Then! I know your temper based on your post and then and only then would you get an understanding. But that is never gonna happen.

    Tiresome is having to "explain" what I may do to MY body to anybody! Again: once you can carry around that something? Get back to me. Til then? You have no clue!
    Kali, I'm male, and if you've paid any attention at all you'd know I have a lot more than just a clue.

    1. My wife got pregnant against my wishes... she asked me if I wanted her to abort. I said no, even though at the time I was thinking that I'd made a terrible mistake in marrying her a few months earlier. (turns out, I had.)
    2. When our son was 2, she went off to do her own "free spirit" thing and left us alone. I've spent the past dozen years raising a child from babyhood alone, making that my top priority, sacrificing everything else in life that got in the way. I paid my ****ing dues.
    3. I may not have carried my child inside my body for nine months, but by gosh I've carried him on my back for 12 years, with damnall help from his mother, so bite me.

    I've paid my dues and earned the right to a gall-damn opinion!

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  8. #48
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    Re: Would you change your stance on abortion if ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Kali, I'm male, and if you've paid any attention at all you'd know I have a lot more than just a clue.

    1. My wife got pregnant against my wishes... she asked me if I wanted her to abort. I said no, even though at the time I was thinking that I'd made a terrible mistake in marrying her a few months earlier. (turns out, I had.)
    2. When our son was 2, she went off to do her own "free spirit" thing and left us alone. I've spent the past dozen years raising a child from babyhood alone, making that my top priority, sacrificing everything else in life that got in the way. I paid my ****ing dues.
    3. I may not have carried my child inside my body for nine months, but by gosh I've carried him on my back for 12 years, with damnall help from his mother, so bite me.

    I've paid my dues and earned the right to a gall-damn opinion!
    You haven't done anything that any normal parent of either sex wouldn't do; nor have you done anything that gives you any special credibility when it comes to telling women what they ought to do with their bodies.
    I grew up in a situation similar to what you describe, yet my father has never tried to dictate my reproductive choices. He doesn't believe that having raised a child alone gives him any special insight into what other people ought to do with their bodies.

  9. #49
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    Re: Would you change your stance on abortion if ...

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    You haven't done anything that any normal parent of either sex wouldn't do; nor have you done anything that gives you any special credibility when it comes to telling women what they ought to do with their bodies.
    Your post is a circumstantial ad hominem. The fact that he has never had a fetus in his uterus (and, in fact, does not have a uterus), does not have any bearing, whatsoever, on the truth or falsity of his arguments. Why not stick to arguing the topic, instead of attacking other users?

    Being a woman does not give us an inherent superiority in determining the ethics of the abortion quandary.

  10. #50
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    Re: Would you change your stance on abortion if ...

    Originally Posted by 1069
    You haven't done anything that any normal parent of either sex wouldn't do; nor have you done anything that gives you any special credibility when it comes to telling women what they ought to do with their bodies.
    When faced with an unwanted pregnancy, I "chose life" and walked my talk, even though for a dozen years I've had to walk it largely alone. I sacrificed a career, took a pay cut, sacrificed relationships and other opportunities, and fulfilled my obligation to the life I helped create.

    Damn right that gives me a right to an opinion.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

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