View Poll Results: Is it possible for a politician to stick to old school conservatism?

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    9 37.50%
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    11 45.83%
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Thread: Is it possible to go back to old school conservatism?

  1. #21
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    Re: Is it possible to go back to old school conservatism?

    The era of old school conservatism had much higher taxes imposed on the people, but now the already rich want to be even richer even if it means destroying the economy that supports ALL of us.
    You can only squeeze so much from the middle class, and pretty much nothing from the poor.
    We need to get back to the era where wealth is earned, not stolen. Beats me why they can't see that it is better to have a thousand millionaires instead of one billionaire.
    AND, getting rich should be done by adding value to the system, not just manipulating the finances of others.
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  2. #22
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    Re: Is it possible to go back to old school conservatism?

    Not only is it possible, but America is in dire need of real conservative reform.

  3. #23
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    Re: Is it possible to go back to old school conservatism?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Not only is it possible, but America is in dire need of real conservative reform.
    Define "real conservatism."

  4. #24
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    Re: Is it possible to go back to old school conservatism?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Ok. So I am looking at the news, we have the tea partiers who are pissed off, for what they believe are good reasons, about the lack of true conservative values and leadership in government.

    One complain I hear is that once a person gets elected and go to Washington, they begin to compromise and become too liberal (Whats interesting though is many liberals feel that their guys are too conservative). The idea is that these politicians should continue to espouse true conservative values such as small government, lower taxes, strong national defense, etc.

    My question is, is that even possible or it is simply a fact of life that being in a leadership position necessarily moderates a person?
    The Tea Party is just a right wing neoconservative group. They don't know anything about real conservatism.

    Ron Paul would be my pick for the closest to "real conservative" politician. These neocons are NOT conservative in any traditional sense of the word. They're just right-wingers. There's a big difference.

  5. #25
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    Re: Is it possible to go back to old school conservatism?

    Obama came in with liberal ideas, and though he still has executed many (stimulus bill), he has become such a weak-ass in pandering to both sides, trying to be a moderate.


  6. #26
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    Re: Is it possible to go back to old school conservatism?

    It is not unusual for a new president to try to govern from the middle....
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  7. #27
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    Re: Is it possible to go back to old school conservatism?

    The way I see things, the current situation vis a vis the tea party and the increasing gridlock of US politics is a manifestation of the federalist system itself.

    The more a system is designed with a focus on limiting centralisation and encouraging power-sharing, the more influence interest and status groups will have in that system. Even just on a governmental level, a unitary system a la the UK has a clearer locus of power than a federalist system that shares this power between different echelons of government. So this sets the stage for particular groups in government to attempt to exert more influence by getting other interest groups, such as the private sector, on board.

    Then a vicious circle begins to form. With the rise of neoliberalism and the New Right in the 70's and 80's, even less emphasis was placed on government as the centre of power and order in society. Increased emphasis and power were given to non-governmental interest groups, further decreasing the importance of government in social relations.

    Nowadays, the Tea Party campaigns for smaller government. There is also a general sentiment that the government is too deeply interlinked with these interest groups that it awarded privilege to in the past. However, to campaign for both smaller government and greater governmental independence is somewhat contradictory. The smaller a government is, the more it will rely on non-governmental groups as authorities in society and the more it will need their support in order to perform whatever duties it may retain. It will have neither the societal recognition nor the fiscal resources to function any differently.

    Unfortunately, 'old-school' and paternalistic conservatism (the sort that would be quasi-socialist from a Tea Party POV) hails from a very different era, where corporations and other special interest groups were not the towering entities that they are now. There was a clear idea that authority and order centred around the government. Now, with the rise of postmodernism and the resurgence of economic and political discourses that promote far greater independence from government, traditional conservatism has lost its relevance. Any politician running for office with respect for these old-school beliefs quickly loses it as they realise its incompatibility with the current state of the system.

    Just my two cents.
    Last edited by Yossarian; 04-14-10 at 01:09 AM.

  8. #28
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    Re: Is it possible to go back to old school conservatism?

    Basically, some of you are saying that a set of politicians can go to Washington, cut vast numbers of services millions of Americans want and stay in power.

    Really?

    Tell me how this motto will go down: "Vote for me, I'll keep eliminating everything you love and need."

    Old school conservatism won't work because voters love certain programs. Cutting them doesn't win you votes.

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    "No handouts! Stop Socialism! No Welfare! Burn our Medicare cards." Next scene, everyone but the guy who wants to burn the cards leaves.

    When you actually get around to cutting the big items, you will quickly get tossed out of power.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Is it possible to go back to old school conservatism?

    It's possible to have a return to fiscal conservativism, but not social conservativism. The latter would create a lot of upheavel.

  10. #30
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    Re: Is it possible to go back to old school conservatism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    It's possible to have a return to fiscal conservativism, but not social conservativism. The latter would create a lot of upheavel.
    That seems inherently contradictory. First you state it is not possible, but then you do with a caveat.

    I agree that going to Victorian era social conservatism would require a form of theocratic police found in Iran or Saudi Arabia who would go around beating and arresting people. Not to mention a form of secret police to snoop around private lives.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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