View Poll Results: Have You Ever Experienced Racism?

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  • Yes

    58 82.86%
  • No

    7 10.00%
  • Not Sure

    5 7.14%
  • Racism Is a Myth

    0 0%
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Thread: Have You Ever Experienced Racism?

  1. #101
    The Almighty
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    Re: Have You Ever Experienced Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
    I agree, in part. I stated in another thread that "it’s actually quite rare that the starting point of racism is belief in the genetic inferiority of certain racial groups. More often, it’s related to perceived aggression or offense from a group of people highly populated by a certain race or ethnic group, with discrimination against that race or ethnic group then becoming a convenient mechanism for quickly and effectively categorizing them."

    In that thread, we were discussing the allegedly racist attitudes of the Minuteman Project and border vigilantes. I first referred to the cognivite scientist George Lakoff's commentary on the social conservative's view of illegal immigrants and the violation of their moral values that such immigrants' behavior involves.



    I then commented that "as illegal immigrants are viewed that way, and as most illegal immigrants are persons of full or mixed-blooded Indian descent, and given that most Americans incorrectly consider Mexicans a racial group and group Indians of Guatemalan, Nicaraguan, or Salvadorean descent (just to offer several examples) into the “Mexican” group, it’s not surprising that you hear Mexican jokes or slurs; “Mexican” identity has become a way to easily aggregate the people violating the social conservatives’ moral precepts."

    Let's consider the example of blacks next, who are stereotypically regarded as being the greatest users of social welfare programs in the country. Apart from being inaccurate, since whites use more total welfare (because of their greater numbers), and there is thus a greater probability of encountering a white welfare user than a black one, welfare provision is regarded as another violation of the social conservative's principes. It is considered to be free provision of rewards to a person that has not worked for it, thereby undermining individual responsibility and self-reliance. (That this is misleading and untrue is irrelevant; the fact that social conservatives believe it to be true is the important part.) If blacks are regarded as the primary users of welfare services, then it stands to reason that blacks would also be regarded as uniquely irresponsible. Blackness then becomes a convenient mechanism for quickly and effectively mentally categorizing welfare users, with certain "urban" traits (speech in the black dialect, a certain style of dress and appearance, etc.) strengthening the categorization more.

    This hardly stems from a pre-existing belief in black racial inferiority; it's just that black skin color is associated with welfare usage, high crime rates, and other aspects of "ghetto" life that social conservatives regard as profoundly immoral. And that can lead to racial discrimination, even if the offender is not aware of the exact nature of his or her conduct.



    This sort of racial discrimination would be dismissed by most people as relatively innocuous, and I do tend to agree to some extent. It's not related to any significant social institutions that affect the average daily lives or conditions of blacks, and can thus cause relatively little harm. And more than anything else, it's symptomatic of a more racist socio-cultural environment than a direct cause of the illness. You've developed expectations of blacks based on the fact that their behavior patterns seem to deviate from those of whites.

    At some point in the future, when differential treatment and conditions of whites and blacks ceases to exist, perceptions of very significant divergences in behavior patterns will also fade away. For example, I wouldn't expect you to discriminate between WASP patrons and "white ethnic" patrons because you've not been conditioned to expect different behavior patterns from the latter group, or even to be able to quickly identify them as distinct, as people were able to do in times past. I might have expected a waiter in 1910 to treat Italian patrons differently than the "Anglo-American" patrons, but I'd hardly expect it in 2010 because the WASP and Italian populations are similarly socialized now, with Italian ethnic background being a novel curiosity rather than a life-changing stigma.
    What a very intelligent post!

    You make me want to clarify. I'm not sure my stereotype is necessarily racist. I don't think there's anything inherent in "blackness" that makes somebody a bad tipper. It's quite clearly cultural.
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  2. #102
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    Re: Have You Ever Experienced Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    So, as a hypothetical, you are telling me that if:

    You, during your days of running people down a river (If memory serves, you mentioned white-water rafting?), experianced that a majority of white males of an age within 10-15 years of you (excluding those with certian religious backgrounds) tried to hit on you at some point during the trip.

    Are you saying that, given the above, you would not then form a stereotype that would lead you to expect this behavior out of any other white males within 10-15 years of your age, when transported down a river by a female of your general attractiveness?

    I think that you might.
    I've had men hit on me from ages 16 - 65.

    All races. And many nationalities, for that matter.

    As far as your hypothetical goes, I would expect that behavior from MEN in that age range. Their race would be irrelevant.

  3. #103
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    Re: Have You Ever Experienced Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    What are the slight differences you mention (as inferred by your "almost identical")?
    Skin color.

    A) White

    B) Black
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  4. #104
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    Re: Have You Ever Experienced Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cochise View Post

    Is that so? I must say, I've never met a true "half-breed" who didn't bear a greater resemblance or phenotypic association to the darker race.
    It's somewhat odd that somewhat half-Indian does not physically evidence this racial heritage, though perhaps not entirely unheard of. Are you sure that's your exact background
    Sorry, I should have been more precise. I'm not technically a half-breed, as in one Native parent; couple of grandparents, and I'm not positive they were both "full-blood" as I didn't know them that well. I'm darker than most caucasians and have a epicanthic fold in the eyes (or whatever it is you call that thing.). I've had some people ask me if I was part Native, but most don't seem to notice or else don't say anything about it. My Dad was more obviously part-Native.

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  5. #105
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    Re: Have You Ever Experienced Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelzie View Post
    What a very intelligent post!

    You make me want to clarify. I'm not sure my stereotype is necessarily racist. I don't think there's anything inherent in "blackness" that makes somebody a bad tipper. It's quite clearly cultural.
    Thanks.

    That's effectively what I meant, though. Mainstream social conservatives do not generally believe that blacks are genetically inferior or encounter socio-cultural problems because of their blackness. That reverses the chicken and the egg. Their blackness and cultural traits associated with "blackness" instead become a convenient mechanism for categorizing "welfare queens" and "lazy criminals." It's not related to any inherent issue with blacks.

    There are some on the far right that go further and do ultimately conclude that blacks are genetically inferior and predisposed to have lower intelligence levels and aberrant behavior patterns. But they are not present in mainstream social conservatism, but rather with the extremist social conservatism that encompasses white nationalism and similar ideologies.

  6. #106
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    Re: Have You Ever Experienced Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by PonyBoy View Post
    Skin color.

    A) White

    B) Black
    Ah, so two completely identical communities, with only the skin color of the majority population differing.

    Should have noted that in your previous post.

    That said, such a situation is impossible, as no two communities are identical in all aspects except skin color of occupants.
    Not sure how I would decide if the two were identical.
    Hmm.

    As I have had little social interaction with persons whose skin is black so far in my life, perhaps the black-skinned community would be more interesting.

    But then, if they are identical, the community culture would also be identical, so that's not gonna work...

    Meh.
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  7. #107
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    Re: Have You Ever Experienced Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Sorry, I should have been more precise. I'm not technically a half-breed, as in one Native parent; couple of grandparents, and I'm not positive they were both "full-blood" as I didn't know them that well. I'm darker than most caucasians and have a epicanthic fold in the eyes (or whatever it is you call that thing.). I've had some people ask me if I was part Native, but most don't seem to notice or else don't say anything about it. My Dad was more obviously part-Native.
    Ah, I see. Contrary to any one-drop rule ideas, I generally classify people into the races that they possess majority genetic heritage from and physically resemble the most. Hence, though African-Americans are on average four-fifths black and one-fifth white, they are simply "black" and not "biracial." And even mulattoes are incorporated into the black race because of their greater phenotypic resemblance to blacks than whites, i.e. they're not a "happy medium." That's why I tend to roll my eyes at whites who describe themselves as "biracial" or "mixed" because they claim to have a drop of Indian blood, but I understand that wasn't your intent.

  8. #108
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    Re: Have You Ever Experienced Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
    Ah, I see. Contrary to any one-drop rule ideas, I generally classify people into the races that they possess majority genetic heritage from and physically resemble the most. Hence, though African-Americans are on average four-fifths black and one-fifth white, they are simply "black" and not "biracial." And even mulattoes are incorporated into the black race because of their greater phenotypic resemblance to blacks than whites, i.e. they're not a "happy medium." That's why I tend to roll my eyes at whites who describe themselves as "biracial" or "mixed" because they claim to have a drop of Indian blood, but I understand that wasn't your intent.
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  9. #109
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    Re: Have You Ever Experienced Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Ah, so two completely identical communities, with only the skin color of the majority population differing.

    Should have noted that in your previous post.

    That said, such a situation is impossible, as no two communities are identical in all aspects except skin color of occupants.
    Not sure how I would decide if the two were identical.
    Hmm.

    As I have had little social interaction with persons whose skin is black so far in my life, perhaps the black-skinned community would be more interesting.

    But then, if they are identical, the community culture would also be identical, so that's not gonna work...

    Meh.
    (Hence: "Lets Pretend")

    Chalk one deflection up for Mark!
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  10. #110
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    Re: Have You Ever Experienced Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by PonyBoy View Post
    (Hence: "Lets Pretend")

    Chalk one deflection up for Mark!


    Huh?

    Are you trying to imply that I could have made a decision and chose not to?

    If the communities were identical, how the hell could I choose between the two?
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