View Poll Results: Legalize hard drugs?

Voters
56. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    28 50.00%
  • No

    28 50.00%
Page 6 of 16 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 151

Thread: Legalize Hard Drugs?

  1. #51
    Sage
    jamesrage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    A place where common sense exists
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    31,067

    Re: Legalize Hard Drugs?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    A) Taxes raised on the sale of hard drugs paying for rehab of addicts

    vs

    B) Taxes spent by non-users incarcerating addicts AND providing rehab

    I will choose A, thank you.
    Unless you charge a significant markup in taxes and prevent the cultivation of the stuff needed to make those drugs then non-users will still be paying.



    The cost of legal drugs will still be cheaper than the black market. Some current cartel organizations will become legal distributors. Same as alcohol after prohibition.
    So you are saying that brewing companies still have thugs after prohibition or are you saying that cartels will get rid of their thugs after drug legalization?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  2. #52
    Advisor LiveUninhibited's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-11-10 @ 03:41 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    549

    Re: Legalize Hard Drugs?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    It is not a matter of simply ingesting drugs.As the op suggested we should use that money to pay for their treatments. Also if these people get hooked on hard core drugs I may have to support their family through welfare payments and foodstamps, section 8 housing because they decided that getting high or tweeking was more important than taking care of their family.


    You want to me shell out cash to someone I do not know so they can get treatment. If I got to be shelling out cash I do not want to do it for their enjoyment.
    I'm not sure why you're so gung ho about incarceration instead of treatment. It's not like treatment is fun either. Both cost the taxpayer money, but one will make them worse afterwards while the other may help them become productive citizens later. You must think the threat of incarceration minimizes recreational drug use. Simply not true.

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    It's hard to say. I doubt the tax receipts paid by the users would be enough to fund treatment. It's something that really can't be determined in a make-believe scenario.
    Taxes are adjustable up to the point that a black market reemerges, which is generally at a high rate for most drugs (probably not marijuana, though it's not a hard drug). Most drug users are not problem users, and a lower proportion of them are problem users where drug policy is more liberal, as we see in the Dutch experience. But we should keep in mind that we're already paying for them, and they're not paying for themselves at all under the status quo because we can't tax the drugs under prohibition.

  3. #53
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last Seen
    07-23-12 @ 03:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    6,763
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Legalize Hard Drugs?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    You seem to have the crayola colored picture of everybody including the cartel holding hands and smiling with the words drugs legalized with backwards Es. Cartels are a business,the Mexican government is not going to crack down on them just because drugs are legalized nor are the cartels just going to sit idly by and allow competition in their areas because competition means less profit for them.
    Let's take a look a mexican cartels. Now I don't have the exact percentages, but I think 60% of a cartels business is buying mexican produced marijuana, smuggling it across the border, and distributing it to gangs on the US side, some mexican and some not. This means 40% is cocaine and heroin.

    We legalize marijuana in the US. Local US growers start growing and distributing marijuana locally. The demand for mexican weed drops (there may still be a little demand since mexican weed is $200/Z or something, while local legal hydroponic is $300/Z - $700/Z. Local US growers may come up with a $200/Z solution). Let's say business falls off 90% for the mexican cartel. The US gangs distributing marijuana lose the exclusivity of their product.

    Now let's say we legalize coke, crack, and heroin. Meth does seem particularly nasty and we may not want to go there. With coke, we approach coca growers in Columbia, buy direct, have the labs convert coca to coke in Columbia, and ship it by air or rail to the US. It passes through Mexico legally. With Heroin, we do a deal with Afghan warlords to convert poppy to H and ship it legally. The cartels are cut out of the supply chain. They lose all that revenue. The US gangs are cut out of the supply chain and lose their revenue.

    The mexican cartel cannot afford their soldiers and bribes to officials without their revenue streams. They will go by the wayside. This includes the gangs inside the US that lose their product and revenue.

  4. #54
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last Seen
    07-23-12 @ 03:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    6,763
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Legalize Hard Drugs?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Unless you charge a significant markup in taxes and prevent the cultivation of the stuff needed to make those drugs then non-users will still be paying.
    I don't agree that preventing the cultivation will have much of an effect. Perhaps some non-payers will continue to pay, but this will be much less than they are currently paying.


    So you are saying that brewing companies still have thugs after prohibition or are you saying that cartels will get rid of their thugs after drug legalization?
    Why do they need thugs?

  5. #55
    Dungeon Master
    Veni, vidi, dormivi!

    spud_meister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Didjabringabeeralong
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    33,868
    Blog Entries
    8

    Re: Legalize Hard Drugs?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Let's take a look a mexican cartels. Now I don't have the exact percentages, but I think 60% of a cartels business is buying mexican produced marijuana, smuggling it across the border, and distributing it to gangs on the US side, some mexican and some not. This means 40% is cocaine and heroin.

    We legalize marijuana in the US. Local US growers start growing and distributing marijuana locally. The demand for mexican weed drops (there may still be a little demand since mexican weed is $200/Z or something, while local legal hydroponic is $300/Z - $700/Z. Local US growers may come up with a $200/Z solution). Let's say business falls off 90% for the mexican cartel. The US gangs distributing marijuana lose the exclusivity of their product.

    Now let's say we legalize coke, crack, and heroin. Meth does seem particularly nasty and we may not want to go there. With coke, we approach coca growers in Columbia, buy direct, have the labs convert coca to coke in Columbia, and ship it by air or rail to the US. It passes through Mexico legally. With Heroin, we do a deal with Afghan warlords to convert poppy to H and ship it legally. The cartels are cut out of the supply chain. They lose all that revenue. The US gangs are cut out of the supply chain and lose their revenue.

    The mexican cartel cannot afford their soldiers and bribes to officials without their revenue streams. They will go by the wayside. This includes the gangs inside the US that lose their product and revenue.
    see that plan hinges on the flaw that you think the cartels will play nice, and won't simply threaten the growers children when they start selling to americans, these are ruthless business men and will not simply roll over and go away.
    Last edited by spud_meister; 04-07-10 at 01:09 AM.
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

  6. #56
    Student
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Last Seen
    09-13-15 @ 09:30 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    265

    Re: Legalize Hard Drugs?

    hmmmmm, the only things I would be ok with legalizing is marijuana and heroin, marijuana because it's pretty innocent compared to the other drugs, heroin because it's a powerful painkiller, more so than morphine.

    also, if marijuana were legalized, those who wanted to use it, could simply grow it themselves (of course they're probably doing it already in basements)

  7. #57
    Sage
    jamesrage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    A place where common sense exists
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    31,067

    Re: Legalize Hard Drugs?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    With legalization, much of the supply chain could be done in the US.
    Where in the US would we be able to grow coca plants, poppy plants and other plants needed for hard drugs in order to stay competitive with foreign sources?


    The ideal wold also be for other countries to do the same as us.
    What we do has no bearing on what other countries and what other countries do has no bearing on us. Just because we do something does not mean other will follow suit.



    Again, economics. Bloodshed is simply uneconomical in an open market. See above
    Cartels are criminal organizations. Even though they they criminal organization they are still businesses selling a product. Competition to them mess less profits.Since they are a criminal organization nothing is going to stop them from shooting the guy down the street selling the same product they are selling. Criminal organizations are businesses and most of the time operate like business but however will use illegal tactics for their advantage.

    Who said anythng about being nice or cracking down?
    You seem to have this dream that cartels will go legit if we legalize hard drugs.


    This is simple business reality. Criminal empires are an expensive enterpirse.
    How are criminal enterprises expensive?

    If they can do it more cheaply they will or they won't have any money to threaten anyone.
    If they shoot their competition they will have more money.If they extort their competition they will have more money.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  8. #58
    Devourer of Poor Children
    DrunkenAsparagus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    DC
    Last Seen
    01-20-16 @ 04:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    4,496

    Re: Legalize Hard Drugs?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    see that plan hinges on the flaw that you think the cartels will play nice, and won't simply threaten the growers children when they start selling to americans, these are ruthless business men and will not simply roll over and go away.
    Again, this costs a lot of money. The leaders of these cartels are intelligent businessmen. They can see that legitimate business in an open drug market is far more profitable than violence.
    "Doubleplusungood"

    George Orwell

  9. #59
    Student
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Last Seen
    09-13-15 @ 09:30 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    265

    Re: Legalize Hard Drugs?

    hmmmm lookit! [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_and_soft_drugs]Hard and soft drugs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    cannabis, or marijuana is a soft drug, not hard

    interesting that tobacco and alcohol are borderline

  10. #60
    Guru
    Skateguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Houston/Heights
    Last Seen
    02-07-12 @ 08:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,571

    Re: Legalize Hard Drugs?

    Hand the stuff out for free to anybody dumb enough to use them. good way to thin the herd.
    "Don't be particular bout nothin, but the company you keep"

Page 6 of 16 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •